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Re:The "Work For Hire" Doctrine Almost Never Works in Softwa... by patio11 on Monday May 26, 2014 @07:55PM (#7802202)
This is one of the reason consulting clients are paranoid about IP assignment clauses. I've signed MSAs where the language about the IP assignment was as long as all other contractual terms and the NDA combined.

That was historically one of the points of highest friction at my consultancy during contract negotiation, because every lawyer had a different idea of how to totally derisk the IP assignment for the client, many of which were not compatible with me signing them and then continuing to run a consultancy or software company. (Hypothetical example: If I'm doing A/B testing for you, I am of course amenable to giving you copyright to code/copy/reports delivered to you, but I'm not going to give you exclusive rights over "all procedures and knowhow used in the production of the deliverables.")

Word to the wise: when you have your lawyer draft your standard contract, ask them "Hey can we have IP assignment happen only after SoW's associated invoices have been paid in full?" That's a valuable lever to have to encourage clients operating in good faith to prioritize getting your invoices paid expeditiously.

Re:The "Work For Hire" Doctrine Almost Never Works in Softwa... by cperciva on Monday May 26, 2014 @08:48PM (#7802310)
I once had a client present me with an NDA which stated that their Intellectual Property included "all knowhow related to the project", and then a few paragraphs later that they had "the right to seize all Intellectual Property" upon termination of the contract.

When I asked if they intended this to include brain surgery, they agreed to amend it to only seizing documents.

Re:The "Work For Hire" Doctrine Almost Never Works in Softwa... by mgkimsal on Monday May 26, 2014 @11:15PM (#7802682)
I really really really don't think most clients want all my intellectual property. Even I don't want it all...
Re:The "Work For Hire" Doctrine Almost Never Works in Softwa... by GrinningFool on Tuesday May 27, 2014 @08:09AM (#7804009)
It seems like the needed change there was not to alter the scope of what they would seize, but the scope of their definition of Intellectual Property. It's a little unclear from your post - is that what you got modified?
Re:The "Work For Hire" Doctrine Almost Never Works in Softwa... by cperciva on Tuesday May 27, 2014 @10:48AM (#7804733)
Their definition of "Intellectual Property" didn't change, but it didn't matter given the ways in which the term was used.
Re:The "Work For Hire" Doctrine Almost Never Works in Softwa... by paulsutter on Monday May 26, 2014 @11:22PM (#7802699)
Well run companies would not allow for IP assignment to happen only after invoices were paid. A minor payment dispute could then hold up an investment round or M&A transaction, and that's completely out of proportion to the issue you're trying to address. The diligence lawyers /really do/ read every contract they have in the file.

I've never in my life had trouble collecting an invoice. Once I resorted to a collections lawyer[1], and the company paid by wire within two days (it was a six figure invoice). Knowing your rights and leverage is more important than demanding unusual clauses in contracts (and Patrick, I say that with all due respect as a friend).

Another point: Reputable companies have a lot to lose by shafting contractors. This is the real reason it pays to work with reputable customers.

[1] For the curious, the lawyer threatened to put a lien against the company, and they suddenly realized that they really did owe me the money. Feel free to email me with any questions.

Re:The "Work For Hire" Doctrine Almost Never Works in Softwa... by Argorak on Tuesday May 27, 2014 @06:33AM (#7803753)
> Well run companies would not allow for IP assignment to happen only after invoices were paid. A minor payment dispute could then hold up an investment round or M&A transaction, and that's completely out of proportion to the issue you're trying to address. The diligence lawyers /really do/ read every contract they have in the file.

On the other hand, that's exactly the reason you want to have IP assignment clauses in contracts with startups - it gives a lot of incentive to the client to fully pay the invoice in case of a firesale.

I have seen cases where a company went bankrupt, but at the same time sold the software to another company held by the same people, cheating freelancers out of their money. That cannot happen in this case, as the IP assignment blocks the sale unless the buyer agrees on paying out the contractors.

As a contractor, that's your only lever in that case.

Your case only works if the client is actually solvent.

Re:The "Work For Hire" Doctrine Almost Never Works in Softwa... by pja on Tuesday May 27, 2014 @05:38AM (#7803653)
A minor payment dispute could then hold up an investment round or M&A transaction, and that's completely out of proportion to the issue you're trying to address.

If it's minor payment dispute, they they can just pay the invoice and get on with the M+A transaction.

Personally, I can't see why the client should expect to own work done at their request if they haven't paid.

Re:The "Work For Hire" Doctrine Almost Never Works in Softwa... by reboog711 on Tuesday May 27, 2014 @07:51AM (#7803952)
If you had to get a collections lawyer involved; that usually means you had trouble collecting an invoice.
Re:The "Work For Hire" Doctrine Almost Never Works in Softwa... by nthj on Tuesday May 27, 2014 @10:06PM (#7808009)
> A minor payment dispute could then hold up an investment round or M&A transaction, and that's completely out of proportion to the issue you're trying to address.

For any good client, an investment round or M&A transaction is to them what my fee is to me, and my fee is to them what the late charge on my waterbill is to me—easier to just pay the $1.20 than to give any fuss about it.

In other words, if they're that worried about it, they can always just pay the dispute and sort it out later. My business, however, might be significantly hindered by them not paying.

Re:The "Work For Hire" Doctrine Almost Never Works in Softwa... by EGreg on Monday May 26, 2014 @09:50PM (#7802474)
patio - that's very good advice!

From my own experience, I would also suggest in actual negotiations with clients to bring up the example of Wordpress and blogs. By making a blog for you using Wordpress, you don't come to own the Wordpress platform. This underscores the economics to a client based on a real life example.

The consultancy should have its own reusable "platform" (which it refers to in its standard contracts) which can include the knowhow, software and whatever else. The client is offered a worldwide, royalty-free, unlimited license to the platform, app and all its source code. If they balk, then you do copyright assignment, but of the app only, never the platform.

That way it's presented cleanly to the client in terms they can hang their hat on -- platform and app.

Re:The "Work For Hire" Doctrine Almost Never Works in Softwa... by mathattack on Monday May 26, 2014 @09:32PM (#7802427)
all procedures and knowhow used in the production of the deliverables.

Can this possibly be enforceable? I've seen two extremes from prior employers: "Sign everything away because nobody will sue a consulting employee" and "Be belligerent in the contract process to point of risking not getting the deal done."

For better or worse, the more "well run" firm overall was the most lenient in agreements around what consultants could and couldn't do. Somehow people still wound up spending 10 years servicing clients in the same industry despite non-competes. I think they just assumed it wasn't worth chasing folks over.

Re:The "Work For Hire" Doctrine Almost Never Works in Softwa... by jschulenklopper on Tuesday May 27, 2014 @03:39AM (#7803346)
> "Hey can we have IP assignment happen only after SoW's associated invoices have been paid in full?"

Normally: yes. For more explanation on this, see Mike Monteiro's great presentation during a CreativeMornings event: http://vimeo.com/22053820. Most of us will recognize the talk by the title alone: "F*ck You. Pay Me."

Re:The "Work For Hire" Doctrine Almost Never Works in Softwa... by yangmeyer on Tuesday May 27, 2014 @04:03AM (#7803414)
The best thing about this "assign after payment in full" clause: It makes potential disputes about unpaid invoices a copyright infringement issue. And crucially, legal costs for copyright cases in the US are paid by the infringing party.

(IANA lawyer, but I learned this from one while contracting.)

Re:The "Work For Hire" Doctrine Almost Never Works in Softwa... by Argorak on Tuesday May 27, 2014 @06:39AM (#7803769)
The most important part is that it avoids many cases where the client tries to "ship off" the software. (e.g. by selling it to another party for a penny and going bankrupt itself)

This is in some cases fraudulent in itself, but being able to block the sale is a much clearer case.

Re:The "Work For Hire" Doctrine Almost Never Works in Softwa... by ehurrell on Tuesday May 27, 2014 @04:15AM (#7803442)
This is exactly what I was going to post, it's an excellent talk. As Mike says a good contract is good for both the client and the worker, as it ensure everyone is on the same page. It only takes being burned for trusting people once to realize a good contract can be a lifesaver.