News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:The Decline and Fall of BIND 10 [pdf] by pekk on Wednesday May 14, 2014 @04:21PM (#7746136)
And I can't imagine what it is like to deploy Java apps if you have no actual familiarity with the JVM ecosystem, either.
Re:The Decline and Fall of BIND 10 [pdf] by e12e on Wednesday May 14, 2014 @04:34PM (#7746232)
As a sysadmin, I hated java way more than python :-)

At least, with java, no one even attempts to use distro package tools to manage libraries, packages and dependencies. Can you see a sysadmin using a syslog replacement implemented in java, requiring java8, along with a webserver only running on java5?

With python, some tools (those big enough to be packaged) are no problem. Some random tool from pip -- not so much -- now you have to patch that python binary, those python dependencies etc... and not just track security.your-distro.org.

It is certainly possible to deploy your system in a similar way you deploy your apps (take on 100% of the burden of maintaining the whole thing) -- but normally you want the "system" to be a stable foundation on which to erect your rickety duct-taped mono-jvm-python-ruby app-stack with the help of puppet/chef/cfengine/salt/ansible... you don't want pip/hackage/gem/npm to manage your system. You might trust it to manage a single application.

Re:The Decline and Fall of BIND 10 [pdf] by andor on Wednesday May 14, 2014 @08:00PM (#7747259)
It should be very easy. Things are never installed system-wide -- no cross-app conflicts. When starting an application, either you manually specify each file or directory to include, or you just package every dependency into your executable jar file.
Re:The Decline and Fall of BIND 10 [pdf] by bronson on Wednesday May 14, 2014 @04:43PM (#7746299)
What is your point? That administrators really hate Java too?
Re:The Decline and Fall of BIND 10 [pdf] by thyrsus on Wednesday May 14, 2014 @11:32PM (#7747729)
This system administrator hates Java almost as much as Windows. I'm still enraged at the old lie "compile once, run everywhere". Just look at what Java does to the Red Hat "alternatives" system, although I can't imagine any prettier body cast around that catastrophe.
Re:The Decline and Fall of BIND 10 [pdf] by dredmorbius on Thursday May 15, 2014 @01:44AM (#7748016)
Reading your comment the irony occurs to me that the best solution to "compile once" has been real VMs. Not Java VMs, but full god damned fucking virtual machines running the OS and environment you determine should run in them.

You've still got to provision those, but, well, they're individual and isolated and tend not to go hammering into one another. Other than consuming all available system resources.

Oddly: IBM got this right with VM ... 40 years ago?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VM_(operating_system)