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Re:Results of the GitHub Investigation by mef on Monday April 21, 2014 @04:11PM (#7623440)
Theresa Preston-Werner's response https://medium.com/p/2fe173c44215
Re:Results of the GitHub Investigation by throwaway1991 on Monday April 21, 2014 @04:47PM (#7623713)
Theresa is full of it. I have no idea what happened at Github but she's been telling people in New York she started Omakase because she's "angry with the tech industry." With that kind of attitude it's no surprise Github employees felt pressured into volunteering for her. She has admitted that she's not just someone excited about her new venture, she is beginning conversations with the idea that she knows what's best for the other person and that's working for her/contributing to her charity.

Not to mention that it seems like the tech industry has done a lot for her family's life so it seems strange and ungrateful to respond with anger that other people in positions of less influence than her family has, are not doing enough for the world in some vague sense.

Not to mention the massive hypocrisy that she is raising money from institutional investors as donors to cover operations costs for her non-profit which is ultimately a shakedown on salaried employees. There are things I agree with Theresa about, but asking the ultra-rich for money to support her venture to pressure regular people to give more to charity is nuts.

Re:Results of the GitHub Investigation by marshray on Monday April 21, 2014 @05:33PM (#7624058)
That does sound like a little more than the boss bringing around the Girl Scout Cookies signup sheet.
Re:Results of the GitHub Investigation by voidlogic on Monday April 21, 2014 @04:25PM (#7623550)
This is all conjecture, but this series of events got me thinking about what to learn from this.

I have a feeling Ms. Horvath and Mrs. Preston-Werner completely believe their own interpretations of what happened.

This is a good reminder of how subtle and ambiguous our and others views of the same reality is. In her post Theresa mentions having a blind spot for the obligations that github employees felt for helping her charity, but she didn't see it, she saw friends.

I think this is a good lesson to us all about not only making clear HR polices, but also always giving intentional consideration to how those around us see what we say and do. A kind of intellectual empathy.

Re:Results of the GitHub Investigation by mtrimpe on Monday April 21, 2014 @05:00PM (#7623830)
In my mind this is the key sentence in her response:

"I was the wife of the CEO, but that never entered my mind when I hung out with any GitHubbers."

That is just not acceptable; it's the equivalent of walking around with a machine gun in your hands and saying that you never considered it might have any impact.

As much as she might have liked it to, you can't wield considerable power over people's lives and have them treat you as though you don't. It just doesn't work that way.

Re:Results of the GitHub Investigation by jrochkind1 on Monday April 21, 2014 @05:12PM (#7623915)
Your comment about ignoring the considerable power you wield over other people and expecting them to hits home for me.

I'm not sure exactly how to phrase it, but I think there's something there in general applicable to the current round of companies which have 'flat' organizational structures, but still aren't hardly employee-owned democratically-managed enterprises. [1] There are owners and bosses, there are people with ultimate decision-making powers (including hiring and firing) and those without, some who have a heck of a lot more salary/equity than others -- but at the same time, the 'flat structure' somehow seems as if everyone's expected to ignore that and act like it's not true.

It's of course not a coincidence that Github is one of the most famous examples of such a 'flat structured' (not not actually democratically-managed) companies.

And I think it's a shame that people will use this as an example of why hieararchy and authority is neccessary. I think it's more about the dangers of trying to make hieararchy and authority invisible when it actually still exists.

Thanks for your comment which helped me start thinking about this, sorry my response is much less coherent. :)

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worker_cooperative

Re:Results of the GitHub Investigation by stormbrew on Monday April 21, 2014 @05:39PM (#7624109)
> I think it's more about the dangers of trying to make hieararchy and authority invisible when it actually still exists.

I want to emphasize this, because it is absolutely a thing that tends to happen even with the best of intentions from all parties. You can't eliminate hierarchy by hiding it.

Re:Results of the GitHub Investigation by ganeumann on Monday April 21, 2014 @06:51PM (#7624505)
The difficulty in this for founders is that when you start the company, you need your employees way more than they need you. They have more power than you do at the beginning. And while this slowly changes, it changes even more slowly in a founder's mind.

Don't get sucked into thinking you're peers with your employees when you decide how much they get paid, what work they do all day, and whether or not they keep their job. They don't see you as a peer.

Re:Results of the GitHub Investigation by js2 on Monday April 21, 2014 @04:41PM (#7623674)
how subtle and ambiguous our and others views of the same reality is

Rashomon.

Re:Results of the GitHub Investigation by neilk on Monday April 21, 2014 @06:04PM (#7624265)
Everyone thinks the message of that movie is "all truth is subjective", but it's not. It's more like "the stories we tell ourselves and others are distorted by our self-image and our interests".

At the end, the movie even explicitly rejects the theory that truth is unobtainable, and that everyone is corrupt. In the movie at least, disinterested third parties who have good intentions can reveal the truth.

You may believe in subjectivity, but Rashomon doesn't.

Re:Results of the GitHub Investigation by MarkPNeyer on Monday April 21, 2014 @06:52PM (#7624510)
i'm not sure where you're getting this. the parent referenced a movie, after posting a quote marveling at the different ways people interpret the same reality.

grandparent post was talking about the need for intellectual empathy. i've seen that work wonders in my life. it's like this thread of comments shows the need for intellectual empathy in microcosm.

Re:Results of the GitHub Investigation by RodericDay on Monday April 21, 2014 @09:05PM (#7625108)
I agree with your parent that the reference gave the impression of having misunderstood the film

It's like someone is raving about the military, and someone quotes appending Dulce et decorum est below. Not a big deal, but big enough to write a small comment making a correction, just in case.

Re:Results of the GitHub Investigation by marshray on Monday April 21, 2014 @09:24PM (#7625192)
I don't see it. The quote replied to was "how subtle and ambiguous our and others views of the same reality is".
Re:Results of the GitHub Investigation by comrh on Monday April 21, 2014 @04:30PM (#7623587)
And if people point out your blind spot: stop, listen and then reevaluate.
[deleted]
Re:Results of the GitHub Investigation by tptacek on Monday April 21, 2014 @04:20PM (#7623519)
No, that's saying that Tom Preston-Werner was exonerated, and that a different problem surfaced during the investigation. It is not necessary for Horvath to have lied for that to be the conclusion reached. Misunderstandings happen.
Re:Results of the GitHub Investigation by parfe on Monday April 21, 2014 @04:54PM (#7623774)
>The investigation found no evidence to support the claims against Tom and his wife of sexual or gender-based harassment or retaliation, or of a sexist or hostile work environment. However, while there may have been no legal wrongdoing, the investigator did find evidence of mistakes and errors of judgment.

Using the word "exonerated" outright ignores the conclusion of the report. The github hired investigator reported no evidence of legal wrong-doing. Then the company fired/accepted the resignation of Preston-Werner for his "other" mistakes.

I think it's safe to say Github would not admit to legal wrong doing publicly as that just opens them up to legal liability. But to then say "no legal wrongdoing" translates into Preston-Werner being exonerated has to be some sort of joke.

Re:Results of the GitHub Investigation by tptacek on Monday April 21, 2014 @05:01PM (#7623834)
Your scare-quotes around "other" are deceptive, since those other mistakes aren't a mystery.
Re:Results of the GitHub Investigation by parfe on Monday April 21, 2014 @05:02PM (#7623846)
I apologize if I missed it, but what mistakes did Tom Preston-Werner or GitHub publicly admit to? I just re-skimmed his blog and the github press release and only see denials of very specific terms regarding illegal sexual harassment.
Re:Results of the GitHub Investigation by voidlogic on Monday April 21, 2014 @06:02PM (#7624255)
Re:Results of the GitHub Investigation by crashandburn4 on Monday April 21, 2014 @06:55PM (#7624524)
So, just to clarify, you mean the mistake that he made was allowing Theresa to speak to employees of github and make them feel pressured to contribute to her start-up? or was there something else I'm missing?