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Re:U.S. stock markets are rigged, says author Michael Lewis by gojomo on Monday March 31, 2014 @01:05AM (#7499746)
The approach touted by the 60Minutes piece, the coop-like IEX market that aims to equalize participant lags, is one obvious countermeasure.

Another promising tactic could be the "Frequent Batch Auctions" as described in the paper referenced in this blog post:

http://johnhcochrane.blogspot.com/2014/02/budish-cramton-and...

Direct paper link: http://faculty.chicagobooth.edu/eric.budish/research/HFT-Fre...

Paper abstract:

We argue that the continuous limit order book is a flawed market design and propose that financial exchanges instead use frequent batch auctions: uniform-price sealed-bid double auctions conducted at frequent but discrete time intervals, e.g., every 1 second. Our argument has four parts. First, we use millisecond-level direct-feed data from exchanges to show that the continuous limit order book market design does not really “work” in continuous time: market correlations completely break down at high-frequency time horizons. Second, we show that this correlation breakdown creates frequent technical arbitrage opportunities, available to whomever is fastest, which in turn creates an arms race to exploit such opportunities. Third, we develop a simple new theory model motivated by these empirical facts. The model shows that the arms race is not only socially wasteful – a prisoner’s dilemma built directly into the market design – but moreover that its cost is ultimately borne by investors via wider spreads and thinner markets. Last, we show that frequent batch auctions eliminate the arms race, both because they reduce the value of tiny speed advantages and because they transform competition on speed into competition on price. Consequently, frequent batch auctions lead to narrower spreads, deeper markets, and increased social welfare.

Re:U.S. stock markets are rigged, says author Michael Lewis by madaxe_again on Monday March 31, 2014 @05:15AM (#7500434)
Ah, a band-aid on a band-aid.

What was wrong with open outcry? Sure, you had to physically be there, but nothing has changed - traders still cluster around exchanges to keep latency low, HFT kit still lives "on the floor", and what was once done with humans and bits of paper is now done in a far less efficient fashion with computers. Less, because the marginal benefit ends up going into the pockets of those who can afford exchange co-lo and mountains of hardware to parse FIX a tick faster than the other guy, meaning that the rest of the market ends up suffering, and not having a more efficient fill mechanism, as touted.

HFT is that asshole who takes his umbrella with him into the pit, and blocks your trades.

If anything, the solution here is to abolish algorithmic trading, and decrease tick resolution substantially, which if lengthened enough, would take C out of the question and make the entire market equally accessible to all.

I mean, seriously - does the value of Brent light sweet actually change thousands of times per second? According to the markets, yes, according to reality, where people buy futures with straddles/swaps so as to have a fixed, manageable cost, no.

The entire thing is un-necessary, and doesn't add value to humans.

Re:U.S. stock markets are rigged, says author Michael Lewis by smoorman1024 on Monday March 31, 2014 @09:30AM (#7501292)
The most obvious and simplest thing wrong with open outcry and human market makers is the number of specialists that it takes to handle a full universe of stocks. A small electronic trading team can provide/take liquidity in 8000 stocks or greater. If you need specialists you are going to have to provide a living salary for every single specialist who will only be able to handle 20 stocks at most. The cost of trading for the end consumer is higher.
Re:U.S. stock markets are rigged, says author Michael Lewis by madaxe_again on Monday March 31, 2014 @09:42AM (#7501351)
> The cost of trading for the end consumer is higher.

What about when you factor in the artificially elevated buys and artificially depressed sells as a result of HFT?

Re:U.S. stock markets are rigged, says author Michael Lewis by smoorman1024 on Monday March 31, 2014 @09:56AM (#7501448)
What specifically are you referring to?
Re:U.S. stock markets are rigged, says author Michael Lewis by madaxe_again on Monday March 31, 2014 @11:06AM (#7501890)
Did you read the article? :) Pre-emptive buys driving up the price across exchanges.
Re:U.S. stock markets are rigged, says author Michael Lewis by aet on Monday March 31, 2014 @05:23PM (#7504282)
The cost of trading is still drastically lower now than it was with open outcry. There were a number of federal indictments related to NYSE specialists blatently ripping off retail customers.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/13/business/13nyse.html

Re:U.S. stock markets are rigged, says author Michael Lewis by minimax on Monday March 31, 2014 @01:37AM (#7499834)
In a batch auction like that you still have a latency game. There is no reason to submit your order until the last possible moment since you will want to incorporate as much information from other markets and news sources as possible. You would just end up with a crush of orders in the last 100 uS of the batch interval.
Re:U.S. stock markets are rigged, says author Michael Lewis by thecage411 on Monday March 31, 2014 @01:55AM (#7499881)
What about randomizing the auction time?
Re:U.S. stock markets are rigged, says author Michael Lewis by gojomo on Monday March 31, 2014 @02:27AM (#7499979)
That sounds like an interesting wrinkle. The (odds of a) round closing could also be sensitive to the in-rush of sealed bids or even how different later orders are from earlier ones. That might help ensure an early-close either just before, or just after, a wave of orders that hints at information the earlier-bids didn't have. (That is, tick the unseal-matching process based on a signal of substantive change, rather than only wall-clock-time.)
Re:U.S. stock markets are rigged, says author Michael Lewis by jacquesm on Monday March 31, 2014 @04:44AM (#7500357)
But that way you could force the closing of a round by flooding with bids, effectively giving more control rather than less to anybody trying to abuse this system.
Re:U.S. stock markets are rigged, says author Michael Lewis by gojomo on Monday March 31, 2014 @02:20PM (#7503181)
Not sure that'd be fatal, or worse than the current races.

The reset after a calculated flood-to-force-a-round-closure might even bring a compensating external benefit: a slight pause to digest the new information.

It all depends on the specific mechanism design, including choices like whether a flood can be guaranteed to land in a certain round... or might wind up as 'first in' to a subsequent round.

Re:U.S. stock markets are rigged, says author Michael Lewis by RoboTeddy on Monday March 31, 2014 @01:41AM (#7499847)
I haven't read the paper, but I would guess that the one-second-worth of orders in each batch are secret until the batch executes
Re:U.S. stock markets are rigged, says author Michael Lewis by sseveran on Monday March 31, 2014 @01:44AM (#7499858)
Doesn't matter. There is still the incentive for low latency.
Re:U.S. stock markets are rigged, says author Michael Lewis by Dylan16807 on Monday March 31, 2014 @01:54AM (#7499878)
A much smaller and less exploitable incentive. A few milliseconds of info from other news sources is not abusive as far as I know. Unlike the ability to react to pending trades before they happen.
Re:U.S. stock markets are rigged, says author Michael Lewis by sseveran on Monday March 31, 2014 @02:04AM (#7499904)
You are obviously not involved in the trading. A few milliseconds definitely matters. And how would you react to a "pending" trade before it happens?
Re:U.S. stock markets are rigged, says author Michael Lewis by omonra on Monday March 31, 2014 @03:28AM (#7500139)
I think you are conflating two types of information that can be taken advantage of:

1) Information about other orders coming into the system 2) Information about world events that may affect stock prices

The whole point of HFT is extracting maximum information from (1) and using it to make money (supposedly from slower market participants). That is what batch auctions would remove.

Nobody minds if people make money from the second type of information - but it is many orders of magnitude less frequent (ie how many times a day are there economic releases or earnings posted)?

Re:U.S. stock markets are rigged, says author Michael Lewis by randomfool on Monday March 31, 2014 @07:04AM (#7500688)
Then why are people investing massive amounts of money to shave milliseconds in communication times between trading markets (London, Tokyo, NY, Chicago)?

They are all attempting to gain an edge on correlated inter market differences.

Re:U.S. stock markets are rigged, says author Michael Lewis by omonra on Monday March 31, 2014 @01:31PM (#7502883)
The ONLY reason HFT companies invest money to shave milliseconds is to have quicker access to orders that come into the system (this article elaborates: http://blogs.wsj.com/marketbeat/2012/09/20/collocation-the-r...)

It absolutely has nothing to do with reacting to real-world events. So if all activity were to take place at 1 second intervals (kind of like microprocessor clock) - their main advantage would go away.

Re:U.S. stock markets are rigged, says author Michael Lewis by saalweachter on Monday March 31, 2014 @08:24AM (#7500928)
That only matters because both exchanges have the same problem. I think it is definitely true that if both exchanges ran on a synchronized 1 second schedule the advantage would go away, because the information from the previous round would be uniformly available early in the next.

It is less clear to me whether fixing just one exchange fixes both or neither.

Re:U.S. stock markets are rigged, says author Michael Lewis by murbard2 on Monday March 31, 2014 @07:20AM (#7500732)
My favorite solution to the breakdown of correlation is to have order books for beta adjusted prices. That is, you don't bid for Google stocks, you bid for a Google stock minus an equivalent amount of S&P. The price of this pair is much more stable than the price of Google, which means spreads can be tighter.

The nuttier generalization would be to have an order book for each principal component of the covariance matrix of the market. It wouldn't work in practice for a variety of reason (least of which is that the covariance matrix is unstable, ill defined, etc) but it's a good thought experiment to understand the problem.

Re:U.S. stock markets are rigged, says author Michael Lewis by tdaltonc on Monday March 31, 2014 @10:14AM (#7501553)
This is an interesting idea. For this to impact market correlation, would you need to insist that everyone place their orders in beta adjusted terms or would it be enough for the bid making protocol to allow for it?
Re:U.S. stock markets are rigged, says author Michael Lewis by murbard2 on Monday March 31, 2014 @10:20AM (#7501593)
Allowing it is enough, and you could populate it initially by deriving quote from the other books. The CME does it for futures.
Re:U.S. stock markets are rigged, says author Michael Lewis by dpcheng2003 on Monday March 31, 2014 @02:11AM (#7499929)