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Re:Larry Page: I’d Rather Leave My Billions to Elon Musk Tha... by tensor on Thursday March 20, 2014 @04:51PM (#7438668)
>2. Giving your money to Elon is like investing in an absolutely cutting-edge branch of science. At the absolute bleeding-edge. Maybe even beyond the bleeding-edge.

Elon Musk runs engineering companies. They are certainly not at "the absolute bleeding edge" of science though.

If you want to fund science, then fund science. Scientists and their graduate students actually do work at the bleeding edge of science and routinely push beyond it with only a small, small, fraction of what these billionaires make.

Re:Larry Page: I’d Rather Leave My Billions to Elon Musk Tha... by FD3SA on Thursday March 20, 2014 @05:14PM (#7438849)
Precisely this. Elon is a genius, and absolutely one of the greatest men alive. But we must understand that he is an engineer, not a scientist. The fact that he had to put his own money into an ambitious engineering project just goes to show how ridiculously conservative most investors are. Is it any surprise then, that basic science funding from profit driven investors is so abysmal?

We need the NIH, we need the NSF, we need CERN, now more than ever. Basic science is the only way to get significantly more return from a dollar invested, but nobody wants to pay upfront. That is why we need taxpayer funding in basic science. Scientific breakthroughs will yield such massive dividends in the long run, that citizens would literally be spending on their own well being in a way that would otherwise be impossible. Discoveries such as vaccines, antibiotics, surgery, genetics and others have allowed humans to enjoy a standard of living unfathomable even a hundred years ago.

If politicians had any vision whatsoever, they would have instigated a New Deal with massive investment in scientific and engineering research projects. Yet what did they do? Feed banks infinite loans at prime to keep them afloat, so that banks can choose to continue lending on a profit driven schedule.

Guess who gets loans at prime from banks? Not the NIH, that's for sure.

Re:Larry Page: I’d Rather Leave My Billions to Elon Musk Tha... by chroem on Thursday March 20, 2014 @06:27PM (#7439303)
>Elon ... is an engineer

Oh really? Where did he study engineering? When did he take the FE exam?

That's not a term that you can throw around all willy-nilly, especially in the context of hardware. Next, are you about to tell me that the CEO of Ford is also an engineer?

Re:Larry Page: I’d Rather Leave My Billions to Elon Musk Tha... by robotresearcher on Thursday March 20, 2014 @08:45PM (#7439938)
Musk describes himself as an engineer. I'd say his demonstrated ability to lead major engineering projects qualifies him to use that title.

http://elonmusk.com/

The term "engineer" does not imply chartered/professional status in current popular usage.

Re:Larry Page: I’d Rather Leave My Billions to Elon Musk Tha... by kilburn on Friday March 21, 2014 @03:10AM (#7441052)
I just looked it up. The CEO of Ford (Alan Mulally) holds a masters degree in aeronautical and astronautical engineering (among others). If you only allow for the term "engineer" to be used to refer to someone who has en engineering educational background, then yes, he is.

Musk, on the other hand, holds a degree in physics. He started a PhD program on applied physics, but quit to pursue his entrepreneurial interests. If you judge engineers purely from an educational perspective, then yes, Musk is not an engineer.

Nonetheless, if we look at wikipedia's description of what "Engineer" means, we get:

> An engineer is a professional practitioner of engineering, concerned with applying scientific knowledge, mathematics, and ingenuity to develop solutions for technical problems.

So, by this definition, Musk is an engineer...

Re:Larry Page: I’d Rather Leave My Billions to Elon Musk Tha... by sqrlrgwright on Thursday March 20, 2014 @08:27PM (#7439884)
Alan Mulally (CEO of FORD) is a former Boeing engineer.
Re:Larry Page: I’d Rather Leave My Billions to Elon Musk Tha... by not_paul_graham on Friday March 21, 2014 @01:33AM (#7440817)
Given that some people go around calling themselves Happiness Engineer or Growth Engineer I highly doubt that people in SV care enough about the difference. Also you can major in Financial Engineering at Princeton so I don't really think people take the FE exam before calling themselves an engineer.

Although I do take issue with the above (happiness & growth) usage of the term, I'm completely fine with Elon calling himself an engineer because he actually did study engineering (albeit informally) via books, etc.

Re:Larry Page: I’d Rather Leave My Billions to Elon Musk Tha... by dfc on Thursday March 20, 2014 @05:48PM (#7439063)
Precisely this? When is this not precise?

  this

  1.  Used  to identify  a specific  person or  thing close  at hand  or being
      indicated or experienced
  1.1 Used to introduce someone or something
  1.2 Referring to the  nearer of two things close to  the speaker (the other,
      if specified, being identified by ‘that’)
  2.  Referring to a specific thing just mentioned
  3.  Used  to identify  a specific  person or  thing close  at hand  or being
      indicated or experienced:

More: http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/this?q=...
Re:Larry Page: I’d Rather Leave My Billions to Elon Musk Tha... by nl on Thursday March 20, 2014 @08:32PM (#7439900)
"This" on its own as a word indicating agreement is a fairly recent usage.

Notably, the very definition you posted makes no mention of that usage. From that definition there is no way to tell if "This" on its own means "This predeceeding comment is completely wrong" or "This predeceeding comment is completely right".

Also, "precisely" indicates degree rather than the generalist term "this". For example, "I'll meet you at this time tomorrow" and "I'll meet you at precisely this time tomorrow" have different connotations for how accurate you are expecting to be.

Re:Larry Page: I’d Rather Leave My Billions to Elon Musk Tha... by UncleOxidant on Thursday March 20, 2014 @05:20PM (#7438889)
Yes, but how do we "fund science"? We used to do that through the government, but now government funding of science is so broken primarily due to large segments of the US population being "anti-science" and voting that way thus those who control the purse strings don't see the value anymore. Maybe we need to start crowdsourcing scientific research?
Re:Larry Page: I’d Rather Leave My Billions to Elon Musk Tha... by goodcanadian on Thursday March 20, 2014 @06:24PM (#7439283)
Maybe we need to start crowdsourcing scientific research?

Like this?

https://experiment.com/

Re:Larry Page: I’d Rather Leave My Billions to Elon Musk Tha... by robryan on Thursday March 20, 2014 @05:12PM (#7438840)
The issue is the tangible results. You could put a lot of money in science and end up with a lot of dead ends. I think it would be better to think of it as investing in the cutting edge of science that has already been researched being implemented.
Re:Larry Page: I’d Rather Leave My Billions to Elon Musk Tha... by bogs_carut on Thursday March 20, 2014 @06:06PM (#7439194)
Perhaps it's fair to say that they're at the absolute bleeding edge of /applied science/?

After all, SpaceX's plans for a reusable rocket are certainly more ambitious than anything governments have been doing for the last several decades.

Re:Larry Page: I’d Rather Leave My Billions to Elon Musk Tha... by Iftheshoefits on Thursday March 20, 2014 @06:55PM (#7439446)
The internet, heaps of computing technology advances, several trips to the moon, space stations, and a shuttle program all have been done by the government "for the last several decades."

It is undeniably government funded, backed, and run research that has fostered the technological "magic" we see today. I wrote "undeniable" because it is a fact--not a conjecture, opinion, or item subject to debate. Government funded and government run research programs created our space-age technology (literally) and the internet, and fueled a great percentage of the other developments that have advanced our technology so rapidly in the last several decades.

Private companies (whether held privately or publicly traded) are mainly creatures of fear and risk aversion--even the ones that are relatively less so than others. There's nothing especially "bleeding edge" about SpaceX or Tesla, or just about anything else Musk has been involved with. Historically, it has usually taken a great thrust by the government to make big advances, whether through subsidies (i.e. corporate welfare) or direct involvement (NASA/DARPA).

Re:Larry Page: I’d Rather Leave My Billions to Elon Musk Tha... by bogs_carut on Friday March 21, 2014 @12:12PM (#7443088)
And yet the US government was never able -- nor did they try -- to develop a fully-reusable rocket, which is something SpaceX is currently doing.

Saying that corporations are risk-averse followers is inane. Governments broadly fund a great deal of seed-level research. Sometimes they develop applications based upon it. Sometimes corporations get there first.

We're seeing an instance of the latter with SpaceX, I think.

Re:Larry Page: I’d Rather Leave My Billions to Elon Musk Tha... by Iftheshoefits on Friday March 21, 2014 @04:07PM (#7444575)
What is inane about the statement regarding corporations? Generally speaking, unless there is a significant level of government backing or subsidy for the research, corporations just don't engage in it. There are of course exceptions here and there, but most of even that research is hardly bleeding edge. It's mostly very conservative iterations on the original research done by the government (or with government backing). This is true in medicine, space, computer, and just about any other human endeavor one can think of.

Aside from that, your statement about a fully-reusable rocket may technically be true (I suspect that NASA actually has investigated a 100%-reusable rocket, but don't know for sure), but it is trivial and unsupportive of your point, since the concept isn't ground-breaking (the shuttle was completely reusable, even if the delivery system was only partially reusable) or even very risky, given the decades of research and engineering that the government has put into space rocket technology. That was, in fact my point. "Being conservative and risk-averse" is not synonymous with "never does anything new."

Re:Larry Page: I’d Rather Leave My Billions to Elon Musk Tha... by nzp on Friday March 21, 2014 @05:03PM (#7444901)
I'm not sure about the US, but USSR developed one, the Energia II. It was AFAIK never built, it shared the destiny of the rest of the Energia/Buran programme, but they were certainly able and did try. I can't find any references ATM, but I'm pretty sure the US also had plans for a fully reusable Shuttle complex, before the whole thing got ridiculous in planning stages.

EDIT: And what's with the fixation on reusable rockets? It might lower some cost but it's hardly an amazing feat of science and engineering.

Re:Larry Page: I’d Rather Leave My Billions to Elon Musk Tha... by vacri on Thursday March 20, 2014 @09:37PM (#7440124)
This presupposes that engineering companies don't (can't?) do bleeding edge research.