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Re:Google Will Eat Itself by woah on Sunday March 16, 2014 @03:59PM (#7410969)
FYI, in many European countries periods and commas in numbers are the reverse of how we use them in English- 405.413,19 is actually 405,413.19
Re:Google Will Eat Itself by Buge on Sunday March 16, 2014 @11:46PM (#7412890)
And yet they say "Current Google Share Price : 495.01 USD".

They're not even consistent.

Re:Google Will Eat Itself by rplnt on Monday March 17, 2014 @05:35AM (#7413997)
As for the decimal mark (comma), it's most of the world really. This has nothing to do with grouping in numbers. I find both types of thousands separator (, or .) misleading, pointless and not nice at all. But maybe that's because I grew up in a country that used neither of those.
Re:Google Will Eat Itself by hessenwolf on Monday March 17, 2014 @07:02AM (#7414311)
I have to deal with a lot of millions and billions in work (reinsurance). Thousands separators are so essential to me!!
Re:Google Will Eat Itself by brazzy on Monday March 17, 2014 @11:04AM (#7415405)
Then prepare to have your mind blown (if you haven't heard about this before): the correct culture-agnostic term is "grouping separator" because not everyone uses 3 digit groups - in some East Asian languages (specifically Japan and China, not sure who else) you have separate words for "ten thousand" and use 4 digit groups.
Re:Google Will Eat Itself by thanatropism on Monday March 17, 2014 @10:07AM (#7415034)
Don't you find exponent notation to be neater?

1E+03 = one thousand 1E+06 = one million 1E+09 = a thousand millions / an american billion 1E+12 = an american trillion / an european billion

.. and that's as far as you need; the GDP of most countries is on the order of 1E+12 or 1E+13

Re:Google Will Eat Itself by hessenwolf on Monday March 17, 2014 @11:55AM (#7415827)
I think I have genuinely never seen scientific notation used in an accouting context. If it can be rounded, then we will use 1MM or 1B.

I see it as follows. Unlike science, where there are a few numbers related in complex ways, accounting has very many numbers, related in very simple ways.

Re:Google Will Eat Itself by sbd on Monday March 17, 2014 @10:28AM (#7415165)
I assume he requires a few more significant figures in his line of work
Re:Google Will Eat Itself by sysop073 on Monday March 17, 2014 @02:12PM (#7416893)
It's not like scientific notation precludes that. 1.234567E+06 = 1234567, but it's also at a glance obviously around 1 million
Re:Google Will Eat Itself by infruset on Monday March 17, 2014 @10:43AM (#7415258)
wait wait wait, a billion means two different things in Europe and America? I'm from Europe and I always used 1 billion to say 10^9. I hardly see how I would not have noticed figures being so different in say, news articles from America and Britain.
Re:Google Will Eat Itself by hessenwolf on Monday March 17, 2014 @11:52AM (#7415805)
When I was growing up in Ireland, a billion was a million million in Britain and Ireland. Now, we have adopted the American thousand million. In Germany and Italy, a thousand million is a Milliard, and a billion is a trillion.
Re:Google Will Eat Itself by rplnt on Monday March 17, 2014 @05:07PM (#7418099)
Slovak and Czech have it same as Germany/Italy.
Re:Google Will Eat Itself by a-priori on Monday March 17, 2014 @01:01PM (#7416335)
Re:Google Will Eat Itself by rplnt on Monday March 17, 2014 @07:20AM (#7414378)
Yes, they are. I just prefer to use space for this.
Re:Google Will Eat Itself by hessenwolf on Monday March 17, 2014 @11:50AM (#7415791)
A space is a pain to transmit between umpteen file formats.
Re:Google Will Eat Itself by heinz on Sunday March 16, 2014 @05:42PM (#7411473)
No shit, Sherlock?!
Re:Google Will Eat Itself by maaaats on Sunday March 16, 2014 @05:49PM (#7411522)
Thanks for your contribution..

This , vs . is often a problem, because my bank will issue tables with , used as decimal separator, but copying that into some tool everything breaks because it expects . to be used.

Re:Google Will Eat Itself by pinaceae on Sunday March 16, 2014 @07:48PM (#7411975)
his frustration stems from the fact that even after at least 50 years of software development the handling of number formatting (and add in dates for fun) is still something where time and time again software developers fuck up.

it is amazing, all those CS and other courses and still every new generation of (predominantly) US developers discover the fact that there is a world outside the US.

the most dominant data point to prove that software creation is still far away form being called a form of engineering. it's hacking, children throwing shit together then calling it "working".

Re:Google Will Eat Itself by Aardwolf on Sunday March 16, 2014 @08:15PM (#7412087)
Impossible to easily solve programatically. E.g. 400,123: what is it? You cannot know unambiguously.

And using OS language settings won't help either. Im from Europe but would not want to require using "," for the decimal separator enforced by OS settings, or anything related to programming or communicating with people on the Internet would become difficult.

I'd much rather have just everyone use the same convention for this. The C-locale convention for example. But for dates, please don't use the non-sorted American order. For dates the Japanese have it right :)

Re:Google Will Eat Itself by TuringTest on Monday March 17, 2014 @04:32AM (#7413802)
Or you could include these regional conventions in the character encoding, so that each file knows how it represent its numbers, and enforce them consistently throughout applications.

That would be a easy programmatic way to solve the problem, that wouldn't require the whole world to adopt a single standard. But of course it'll never happen, as it would require that all programmers know their shit and follow good practices, when it's much easier to throw the technical debt onto users and let them cope with the problem.

Re:Google Will Eat Itself by Aardwolf on Monday March 17, 2014 @04:48AM (#7413872)
It would require to adopt a single standard, that is, how to encode that in the character encoding and the files. And it would still not stop someone from in the same browser for example using sometimes one notation, sometimes the other notation, depending on e.g. if they're filling in a form for a European bank, or something related to programming.
Re:Google Will Eat Itself by TuringTest on Wednesday March 26, 2014 @07:59AM (#7472793)
You mean, exactly like you do with character encodings for different alphabets?
Re:Google Will Eat Itself by TophWells on Wednesday March 19, 2014 @11:13AM (#7429134)
>Or you could include these regional conventions in the character encoding, so that each file knows how it represent its numbers, and enforce them consistently throughout applications.

So if I open a file in Notepad and type 400,123 (using the comma on my keyboard), what character encoding should that be done with?

Re:Google Will Eat Itself by TuringTest on Wednesday March 26, 2014 @07:59AM (#7472789)
The one that Notepad has configured by default in your OS version, unless you choose a different encoding when saving the file.
Re:Google Will Eat Itself by Link- on Sunday March 16, 2014 @08:33PM (#7412143)
"it is amazing, all those CS and other courses and still every new generation of (predominantly) US developers discover the fact that there is a world outside the US."

Best statement I've read on HN for months now.

Re:Google Will Eat Itself by gommm on Sunday March 16, 2014 @08:49PM (#7412201)
That's led to one of the most marking bug I've had As a kid, I developed an education in software in visual basic. The software I had developed worked fine on my computer but when I installed it to any other computer it would fail.

It took me a long time to find out the issue. I was saving files in CSV using standards methods from Visual Basic. By default, the decimal separator in French is a comma. When Visual Basic saved a number in the CSV file, it saved it with the comma and without escaping or quoting. When the file was read back, the decimal part of the number was thought to be another column...

The only reason, it worked on my computer is that I had set up the decimal separator to a dot there because I found it more readable.

Re:Google Will Eat Itself by cclogg on Sunday March 16, 2014 @09:48PM (#7412412)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:DecimalSeparator.svg

It's actually pretty interestingly split, world-wide.

Re:Google Will Eat Itself by vacri on Monday March 17, 2014 @02:47AM (#7413516)
British 18-19th C domain versus everyone else. Only Central America and Thailand buck the trend, the former most likely because of the enormous economy to their north.
Re:Google Will Eat Itself by sysop073 on Monday March 17, 2014 @02:15PM (#7416912)
You really don't need to take some developers not knowing this quite so personally.