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Re:Evicted in San Francisco by fishtoaster on Tuesday March 11, 2014 @05:18PM (#7382192)
It sounds like she moved there when it was cheap. Is it reasonable to expect her to leave her friends, contacts, etc that she's built up over decades because the city is changing? Housing isn't widgets: it's not easy to move to a cheaper type if your current type gets expensive. There isn't an easy answer to this sort of problem, but to imply that she should simply "move somewhere else" is simplistic in the extreme.

Reminds me of panel 3 in http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/1992-03-01/

Re:Evicted in San Francisco by pilom on Tuesday March 11, 2014 @05:29PM (#7382263)
>Is it reasonable to expect her to leave her friends, contacts, etc that she's built up over decades because the city is changing?

YES! Absolutely reasonable. There is no right to live exactly where you want for the rest of your life (especially when where you want to live is an illegal residence). Nor should there be.

Re:Evicted in San Francisco by fennecfoxen on Tuesday March 11, 2014 @05:46PM (#7382395)
Well, there sort of is a right to live exactly where you want for the rest of your life. It's called buying the property. There are very few exceptions to this (something about property tax, and prop 13 mitigated that pretty well).

Note: comments to the effect that buying property is a big risky deal should pause and consider what that statement imputes about what the landlord offering the place for rent happens to bring to the table

Re:Evicted in San Francisco by Crito on Tuesday March 11, 2014 @05:36PM (#7382325)
Exactly. She has no more right to live in SF than I have to live in Malibu. If she is entitled to 500/mo rent in SF, why am I not entitled to some nice 500/mo rent on the beach?
Re:Evicted in San Francisco by dlss on Tuesday March 11, 2014 @05:46PM (#7382397)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Status_quo_bias

Basically the moral center of our brain, by default, views her leaving as a choice, and you moving as a choice. Rather than her staying vs leaving as a choice. Looks dumb when you parse it right, feels right when you parse it wrong.

Re:Evicted in San Francisco by Crito on Tuesday March 11, 2014 @05:49PM (#7382408)
Lets say that I was once struck very hard in the head by a frisbee, and the moral center of my brain now causes me to believe myself entitled to live in Malibu.

Wanting something is not the same as deserving something.

Re:Evicted in San Francisco by bronson on Tuesday March 11, 2014 @08:11PM (#7383117)
If you'd previously been living in Malibu for decades you might actually have a case.
Re:Evicted in San Francisco by Crito on Wednesday March 12, 2014 @12:41AM (#7384000)
My entire point is that I reject this ridiculous premise. People who currently live in SF don't have any more of a "right to SF" than anybody else. Thinking otherwise is just plain old xenophobia.

The only land that you ever have an indefinite right to is land that you have purchased. I don't get "special privileges" to Seattle or Philadelphia just because I have rented in those two cities for the past 15 years. You don't have some sort of "special right" to your city either, unless you have seen fit to purchase property there.

Re:Evicted in San Francisco by nilkn on Wednesday March 12, 2014 @12:04AM (#7383872)
Not if you never actually owned any of your housing in Malibu. This is why the notion of purchasing and owning property exists in the first place.
Re:Evicted in San Francisco by jonknee on Tuesday March 11, 2014 @09:02PM (#7383305)
The ironic part here is that it was an illegal unit and the owner of that unit is making nearly a million dollars while the person who has paid rent for decades is homeless. Why isn't there a huge fine for renting an illegal apartment for years? Seems like a great gig to collect money from someone until you want to report yourself and get permission to evict them and flip the property.
Re:Evicted in San Francisco by robryan on Tuesday March 11, 2014 @10:17PM (#7383540)
The tenant is also aware of the legal status of the unit.

The rental laws seem to be very restrictive over there. Here in Australia you are often given a one year contract which can then go to month to month with a months eviction warning if not renewed into a longer contract. If it was me I would just be happy that I had a good thing going for as long as I did. Essentially the uncertainty is already priced in to the rental price, it is well below market value.

Re:Evicted in San Francisco by radley on Tuesday March 11, 2014 @05:33PM (#7382306)
Actually there is. It's called Rent Control and it protects the elderly from stuff like this (because they need the protection). As far as I'm concerned, the landlord simply found a loophole.
Re:Evicted in San Francisco by Crito on Tuesday March 11, 2014 @05:38PM (#7382348)
loophole ˈlo͞opˌ(h)ōl/

noun: Part of a set of laws that I do not like.

Rent control does not give you the right to live in an area for a given amount of rent in any circumstance. The circumstances in which it does not provide assurances are not "loopholes".

Re:Evicted in San Francisco by radley on Tuesday March 11, 2014 @05:46PM (#7382401)
Think of it this way: she was renting a room in the house, except as a courtesy to each owner she would to come in through the garage.

New owner decides he's tired and wants her out. If he suddenly claims the room to be an "inlaw apartment", then it would be illegal. Now he can start the process to evict.

Legal loophole.

[Update] The timing is suspicious too, since these units could be legal soon:

http://www.sfgate.com/default/article/S-F-in-law-units-law-c...

Re:Evicted in San Francisco by Crito on Tuesday March 11, 2014 @05:51PM (#7382425)
There was never any question if the unit was illegal. Everyone involved knew that it was (hence my absolutely minimal sympathy for everyone involved, except perhaps^W the cat.) The new owner did not declare the unit to be illegal, the city did.

(edit: I definitely feel sorry for the cat.)

Re:Evicted in San Francisco by Zancarius on Tuesday March 11, 2014 @06:10PM (#7382548)
> hence my absolutely minimal sympathy for everyone involved, except perhaps the cat.

My sympathy rests entirely with the cat. Pets live more or less at the whim of their owner, no matter how unfortunate, and have little choice in the matter (well, I suppose they could escape...). The poor thing likely has no idea what's going on, and it certainly does not look happy. Breaks my heart.

But then, I'm a softy with animals. Cats in particular.

The people? Meh. I'm inclined to agree with the posters here (yourself included) suggesting that she has a choice. I feel bad for her, don't get me wrong, but considering how many people are often forced by economic reasons to move from one area to another and do so without any public sympathy lends me to feel the same in this circumstance. What she's making on SSI a month isn't very much, but I'd imagine her medications are probably paid for in full or in part by her plan, and there are cheaper and safer areas to live in the country than SF. Many retirement communities out here in NM are populated with people who make about what she does a month, but the cost of living is lower.

As someone pointed out (maybe it was you, I'm not sure), if she were of working age, she'd probably have fewer safety nets to fall back on.

It certainly isn't a good situation for anyone involved (except maybe the lawyers), but imagine if this were a story about some programmer/retired programmer who was having to leave his home of 35 years for greener pastures. I'd imagine most of the comments would be along the lines of "suck it up and move."

Either way, the story is still gut wrenching because it's so uncomfortable.

Re:Evicted in San Francisco by CocaKoala on Tuesday March 11, 2014 @05:52PM (#7382429)
I like how you can read an article that details all of the ways in which this woman was a terrible and destructive tenant and then say "Oh yeah, she was definitely evicted because the asshole landlord wanted to flip the property".
Re:Evicted in San Francisco by jack-r-abbit on Tuesday March 11, 2014 @06:04PM (#7382512)
and they owned the place (and let her live there) for 10 years before they had had enough of her. 10 weeks is a pretty long flip.... 10 years is not a flip at all.
Re:Evicted in San Francisco by johngalt on Tuesday March 11, 2014 @08:08PM (#7383107)
Evicting someone who doesn't pay rent is a loophole?

If anyone found a loophole here it's the tenant.

Re:Evicted in San Francisco by krschultz on Tuesday March 11, 2014 @05:28PM (#7382258)
My parents bought their house in the 1980s. They paid it off 100%.

When they retired they moved. Would it have been preferable to keep the house the whole family grew up in? Probably. But they couldn't afford the overhead of utilities, maintenance, etc. They moved to a smaller house in a state with lower property taxes.

They too left their friends, contacts, etc. Built up over living there for 35 years. But it was the responsible decision to do it. Why should it be everyone else's burden if they make a stupid decision to stay put in a place they can't afford? Is that a right?

Especially when seniors have the dual safety net of Social Security and Medicaid - they are generally in a better shape than many working class people. The landlord paid her $14k just to move out. That with social security would absolutely cover living expenses in most of the country.

Re:Evicted in San Francisco by refurb on Tuesday March 11, 2014 @08:48PM (#7383252)
Slight quibble: seniors get Medicare, not Medicaid.

Medicaid is for lower-income folks and the disabled, except some disabled who get Medicare.

However, you can be eligible for both (so called-dual eligibles).

...I'll see myself out....

Re:Evicted in San Francisco by krschultz on Thursday March 13, 2014 @11:33AM (#7392458)
Upvoted for the correction, appreciated.
Re:Evicted in San Francisco by rtpg on Tuesday March 11, 2014 @08:26PM (#7383165)
>Why should it be everyone else's burden if they make a stupid decision to stay put in a place they can't afford? Is that a right?

Obviously utilities going up should be considered in rent, but in a property tax-free world, someone staying is not a burden on the owner, except in the "he could be making even more money". The owner ends up making less because they might not be market value, but considering that what he's doing is rent-seeking anyways, there's not that much moral high ground for the guy who wants to increase rent just because of "the market".

Obviously these problems are nuanced (and economists seem to all agree that rent control = bad )

Re:Evicted in San Francisco by Kliment on Wednesday March 12, 2014 @05:10AM (#7384629)
Someone staying can be a burden if said someone is destroying the property or causing conflict with other people living there.
Re:Evicted in San Francisco by cryoshon on Wednesday March 12, 2014 @11:01AM (#7385965)
Pfft, "responsible" my ass. They left the life they built behind because they couldn't afford to keep it.

That's horrendously sad.

Re:Evicted in San Francisco by krschultz on Thursday March 13, 2014 @11:35AM (#7392475)
In theory yes, in their specific case they are a lot happier. Moved to a warmer climate, their neighborhood has a lot of people their age and they have many new friends and enjoy it. They still come back and see the old friends & family often enough. Overall a great decision, but definitely influenced by the fact that paying for the house they had owned the last 30 years did not make sense for 2 people - and there aren't really cheaper options in the area.
Re:Evicted in San Francisco by nilkn on Tuesday March 11, 2014 @05:31PM (#7382286)
It's not that I don't feel sympathy for her, but yes, cities change and it's something you simply have to be aware of if you're living in one. If you're planning on being a life-long renter, you're really taking a risk that this will happen to you, too, if the prices ever experience a big boom as they have in San Francisco. If she had bought property back when it was cheap, she might be a millionaire today. If over the course of her life she could never afford to buy anything in the city, though, then evidently it wasn't ever really "cheap" relative to her income (or else she just wan't frugal enough).

Besides, I moved away from my family, friends, and contacts that I'd built up over the first 18 years of my life in order to attend college. People uproot themselves frequently because they realize that not doing so is just too impractical.

Re:Evicted in San Francisco by radley on Tuesday March 11, 2014 @05:37PM (#7382334)
San Francisco has Rent Control ordinances, so as long as the unit was legal, she could have stayed there for the rest of her life (which she probably expected).

http://www.sftu.org/rentcontrol.html

Re:Evicted in San Francisco by nilkn on Tuesday March 11, 2014 @05:37PM (#7382339)
> so as long as the unit was legal

It wasn't, according to this article. She took a risk.

Re:Evicted in San Francisco by radley on Tuesday March 11, 2014 @05:51PM (#7382424)
What if she was just "renting a room" and the new owner simply labelled it an "inlaw" as a legal loophole?

[Update] I didn't see the pic. Yeah, it's clearly in a different building, so an in-law.

Re:Evicted in San Francisco by CocaKoala on Tuesday March 11, 2014 @06:07PM (#7382525)
Saying that if you change the details of a story, then the details are different doesn't actually mean anything and doesn't have any bearing on the story as it happened.
Re:Evicted in San Francisco by head_stomp on Tuesday March 11, 2014 @06:08PM (#7382540)
That's incorrect according to your own link:

Illegal Units are covered by rent control. Illegal units, such as in-law apartments, are covered by rent control.

Tenants can only be evicted for one of 15 "just causes." Most of these deal with allegations the tenant can dispute (e.g., tenant is violating the lease) but some are "no-fault" like owner move in or Ellis.

Re:Evicted in San Francisco by refurb on Tuesday March 11, 2014 @08:49PM (#7383259)
Not the rest of her life if the owners decided to remove the unit from the rental market.
Re:Evicted in San Francisco by null_ptr on Thursday March 13, 2014 @07:40AM (#7391161)
Comparing yourself leaving for college at 18 to a 75 year old woman being evicted is plain distasteful.
Re:Evicted in San Francisco by pyrrhotech on Tuesday March 11, 2014 @05:39PM (#7382354)
I live in Hayward amongst plenty of people making her income or less. She can come be my neighbor if she wants & still be within a bart ride of her friends.
Re:Evicted in San Francisco by lettergram on Tuesday March 11, 2014 @05:23PM (#7382225)
No reason she couldn't have moved 40 minutes out of the city, or perhaps if she does have friends she could move in with them.
Re:Evicted in San Francisco by jedmeyers on Tuesday March 11, 2014 @05:26PM (#7382246)
Re:Evicted in San Francisco by joesmo on Wednesday March 12, 2014 @12:05AM (#7383878)
Is it reasonable to expect her to move out when she can't afford it? I can't think of anything more reasonable. Housing isn't guaranteed. This isn't simplistic. It's how the housing market works. It might not be fair, but that doesn't make it wrong. Plenty of us have had to face a move because of cost. It's not easy, but we don't whine about it, we accept the consequences and we deal with life.
Re:Evicted in San Francisco by keypusher on Wednesday March 12, 2014 @01:43AM (#7384185)
Yes, it is. Some things in life are expensive, and nobody is entitled to them.