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Re:Today is The Day We Fight Back by whatevsbro on Tuesday February 11, 2014 @07:42AM (#7217295)
> We're really interested in getting feedback on how future campaigns can be better

I'd recommend addressing the actual problem, which the all-encompassing surveillance is a symptom of. The actual problem is that there is a government in place. For more information, look up Stefan Molyneux, Larken Rose, Michael Huemer, Murray Rothbard, David Friedman, etc.

Re:Today is The Day We Fight Back by mildtrepidation on Tuesday February 11, 2014 @10:25AM (#7218000)
And the actual problem that cancer is a symptom of is that we have bodies. So we should really be working towards the Matrix, not doing dead-end research on curing or treating diseases.
Re:Today is The Day We Fight Back by whatevsbro on Tuesday February 11, 2014 @12:34PM (#7218858)
You're not following, but that's expected. It's not exactly difficult to see reasons for why governments should not exist. They're all around you, and there are countless of them.

As a very simple example, why are laws like SOPA and CISPA passed in secret, unless there's a massive uprising against them? Obviously, they're passed in secret, or stealthily, or all of a sudden - they're just rammed through exactly because they know the people would be against these laws if they only fucking KNEW ABOUT THEM.

Did you think defeating SOPA would be meaningful in the grand scheme of things? If they're passing one law that's harmful to the masses and against their will, why wouldn't they pass another? .. and another, and another?

Well, if they're passing harmful and unnecessary laws all the fucking time, do you think they just might not be on your side? I mean, how difficult is it to figure out that "your" representatives don't actually represent you? They're constantly passing laws that are against your will, after all. Oh, and they're extorting you too! (It's called "taxation" to make it more palatable)

Now then, since it's obvious that the government and its legislators are not on your side - contrary to what people commonly believe, strangely enough - doesn't it make you wonder whether having a government is a good idea in the first place?

Re:Today is The Day We Fight Back by dinkumthinkum on Tuesday February 11, 2014 @06:21PM (#7221297)
It's not difficult to see that government should not exist ... Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound? No one should take you seriously; I don't see what espousing that ideology is going to get you.
Re:Today is The Day We Fight Back by whatevsbro on Wednesday February 12, 2014 @02:20PM (#7226600)
> Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound?

Did you even read what I wrote? But I get it. It's difficult to process this information.

> No one should take you seriously

Don't just take my word for it. Go investigate the collective works of the people I listed above. If you do that, you'll agree with me (unless you've been severely traumatized as a child).

> I don't see what espousing that ideology is going to get you.

Me? -Possibly nothing. But it's good if I can help ordinary people everywhere avoid whatever seriously unpleasant fate awaits us all if we don't wake up in time. People not being subjected to coercion is not much of an ideology by the way.

Re:Today is The Day We Fight Back by j2kun on Tuesday February 11, 2014 @05:16PM (#7220887)
Yeah, having roads and running water are just awful. Schools, sanitation, energy, parks, rights for minorities and laborers. I just HATE that stuff.
Re:Today is The Day We Fight Back by whatevsbro on Wednesday February 12, 2014 @02:27PM (#7226645)
Ah, this again. Is there something special about all those services that makes them impossible to provide with money that has not been extorted from millions of people?
Re:Today is The Day We Fight Back by westward on Wednesday February 12, 2014 @02:56PM (#7226861)
Yes. It's called a coordination problem: http://raikoth.net/libertarian.html#coordination_problems
Re:Today is The Day We Fight Back by whatevsbro on Thursday February 13, 2014 @01:50AM (#7229912)
That FUD is not relevant to my question, and I don't have the time and energy to dissect his contrived, unrealistic fearmongering scenario now.

But for example, why would other people let Mike pollute the water despite everyone else having signed the "Filter Pact"? Mike's selfish actions would directly affect other people making a living, and therefore, some kind of intervention would be warranted - and would happen too! After that, everything is fine again.

Even if you're silly enough to argue against your own freedom, you can't just leave things at presenting a problem, expecting it would not get solved, and thinking you've proven that freedom "doesn't work".

Re:Today is The Day We Fight Back by snowwrestler on Thursday February 13, 2014 @03:30PM (#7234074)
Government exists for all animals. It is an immutable fact of the universe. Ants have government. Termites have government. Naked mole rats have government. Wolves and caribou have government.

It's not up to us. All we can do is decide what structure the government will take.

Re:Today is The Day We Fight Back by whatevsbro on Thursday February 13, 2014 @04:23PM (#7234470)
> Government exists for all animals. It is an immutable fact of the universe. Ants have government. Termites have government.

Wow. At least you're being original :p

> All we can do is decide what structure the government will take.

Actually, as long as we have rulers, we can't even do that. You may be aware of the US quickly turning into a nasty police state. Do you think the people being "governed" had a say in that?

The only possible solution is to have no rulers.

Re:Today is The Day We Fight Back by snowwrestler on Thursday February 13, 2014 @08:02PM (#7236053)
Saying "let's get rid of rulers" is like saying "let's get rid of the ends of a piece of string." It's a logical impossibility. All you can do is replace rulers.
Re:Today is The Day We Fight Back by whatevsbro on Saturday February 15, 2014 @05:17PM (#7245653)
All it takes is for the belief in political authority to dispel. Unfortunately, that's a massive change from where we are today.
Re:Today is The Day We Fight Back by snowwrestler on Monday February 17, 2014 @03:36PM (#7254334)
And how does massive social change come about? Via organized campaigns. Which have leaders. Who become the new rulers if they succeed.

In the last century the Chinese and Russians collectively agreed to give up concepts of property and privilege for the betterment of all. Except, some of them only pretended to do that. So they ended up with everyone else's property and privilege.

It's not hard to convince every single person that they should not be ruled. It's impossible to convince every single person that they should not rule. There's always someone who thinks they could do it better if they were in charge.