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Re:What is really happening in Ukraine by bitL on Monday January 27, 2014 @10:19AM (#7130696)
Why don't you guys split Ukraine into two parts? The western part (pre-WW2's part of Poland) is pro-western, speaking Ukrainian, the eastern part is mostly inhabited by Russians that gravitate towards Moscow. Why nobody suggests this solution?
Re:What is really happening in Ukraine by solyanyk on Monday January 27, 2014 @10:26AM (#7130740)
That's a great idea! In addition, we could also put good guys in charge of everything, and send bad guys to the jail. Also, raise salaries and lower prices. I sense the solution to the Ukrainian crisis is starting to shape!
Re:What is really happening in Ukraine by dimitar on Monday January 27, 2014 @01:18PM (#7132015)
I upvoted this comment due to its honesty, but I disagree that Ukraine needs dividing.

Let me bring up some points:

* Why should apolitical people have their country divided?

* Ukraine isn't divided by language, practically everyone can use both to a different extent and there is no miscommunication. The language that you use most of the time doesn't have to match your politics and often doesn't.

* ~80% percent of the population identifies as simply as Ukrainian with majorities in both parts of the country.

* No part of the country is "mostly inhabited by Russians that gravitate towards Moscow". Even in the Crimea the self-identifying Russians don't have 50% of the population.

* The Yes vote in 1991 for Ukrainian independence from the USSR: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ukr_Referendum_1991.png

* 55% of ethnic Russians supported independence from Russia and they remember, are around 17% of the population.

* With the return of Crimean Tatars and Ukrainians from other parts of the USSR and withdrawal of Soviet troops if there was a confirming referendum today if anything the percentage would be bigger.

* Otherwise the culture is pretty much common to all Ukrainians.

* Religion isn't that different - people actually self-identify as Christian or East Orthodox and the traditions are the same all over the country. Even the Greek-Catholics (10% of population) are really much more Orthodox than Catholic.

Re:What is really happening in Ukraine by strlen on Monday January 27, 2014 @04:09PM (#7133243)
Indeed. What I see happening is young and liberal Ukrainians (whethers Russian, Ukranian, Tatar, and others) simply want their state to be like many other European countries: free, prosperous, democratic, but still multi-ethnic. In fact, they're actually asking for surrender of some aspects of national sovereignty by joining the EU.
Re:What is really happening in Ukraine by dmytrish on Monday January 27, 2014 @01:53PM (#7132280)
I agree with all your points with a minor exception: Crimea does have more than 50% Russians[0] - it's the only region that has more Russians than Ukrainians.

[0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimea#Demographics

Re:What is really happening in Ukraine by dimitar on Monday January 27, 2014 @04:53PM (#7133547)
Point taken, it appears that in Crimea 58% percent is Russian according to the 2001 census.
Re:What is really happening in Ukraine by stargazer-3 on Monday January 27, 2014 @10:22AM (#7130717)
Why don't Americans split the USA into two parts, the red one and the blue one?
Re:What is really happening in Ukraine by ctdonath on Monday January 27, 2014 @04:14PM (#7133275)
If you look at the red/blue split on election precinct levels, you'll see exactly why: the division is very distinct & consistent at the boundary between urban and rural. There is no single clear line (we tried that in the 1860s, didn't go very well), and the geographic (as contrasted with populous) bulk of the so-marked areas sharply disagree with the portrayal. Example: New York is a "dark blue" state, but something like 90% of the land votes "red", noting that the bulk of the population is highly concentrated in a half-dozen cities; Georgia is a "bright red" state, with the city of Atlanta strongly disagreeing. The sharp red/blue division is a waterline surrounding islands of high population; rural folk often do smile at the notion of separating from "blue" areas, but the latter would soon find that severely problematic and will do anything to prevent it.
Re:What is really happening in Ukraine by hackerboos on Monday January 27, 2014 @10:28AM (#7130759)
Re:What is really happening in Ukraine by JonnieCache on Monday January 27, 2014 @10:44AM (#7130856)
Wow. A provocative diagram. Here's the source: http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB123051100709638419
Re:What is really happening in Ukraine by gus_massa on Monday January 27, 2014 @11:40AM (#7131272)
Why “Alaska goes to Russia” instead of “Alaska goes to Canada”?
Re:What is really happening in Ukraine by arethuza on Monday January 27, 2014 @11:47AM (#7131321)
Probably because it was drawn by a Russian?
Re:What is really happening in Ukraine by shitgoose on Monday January 27, 2014 @12:29PM (#7131664)
Alaska used to be Russian territory, sold to US in 1867.
Re:What is really happening in Ukraine by maxmcd on Monday January 27, 2014 @10:25AM (#7130735)
The divide between "red" and "blue" is not geographically consistent. The general political views of both groups are similar. They're not in active conflict at the moment.
Re:What is really happening in Ukraine by panarky on Monday January 27, 2014 @10:45AM (#7130866)
Here's one way to split the US into two (mostly) contiguous regions.

United States of Canada vs. Jesusland: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesusland_map

Re:What is really happening in Ukraine by pdwetz on Monday January 27, 2014 @10:24AM (#7130728)
It was attempted once before.
Re:What is really happening in Ukraine by ynniv on Monday January 27, 2014 @10:56AM (#7130940)
There are more realistic borders along which the United States might reorganize:

http://rocs.hu-berlin.de/projects/borders

Re:What is really happening in Ukraine by gus_massa on Monday January 27, 2014 @11:57AM (#7131401)
This map was discussed here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5566582 (70 points, 248 days ago, 41 comments). I’ll quote the second comment by julespitt: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5566911

> Ahem... http://www.federalreserve.gov/otherfrb.htm .

> Cash is managed through the regional branches of the Federal Reserve, and while there are some boundaries on that map that don't line up, it mostly seems to be governed by these particular administrative regions.

> As a New Yorker from Connecticut, the gigantic barrier between New York and New England would have to be nearly completely explained by the Fed.

Re:What is really happening in Ukraine by ynniv on Monday January 27, 2014 @12:38PM (#7131727)
There is certainly influence, but the Federal Reserve regions map doesn't align especially well with the study map.

As a New Yorker from Connecticut, the gigantic barrier between New York and New England would have to be nearly completely explained by the Fed.

Having also grown up in Connecticut, New Englanders aren't as likely to go to New York as one would expect from the proximity. Young folks, especially in Connecticut, tend to go back and forth, but people in the city only tend to visit New England in the fall, and people in New England only visit the city on special occasion. In fact, the line between New York and New England is the only place I have ever seen a road sign for "New England" and not an actual state name. It is a very culturally polarized region where city folk like the city, country folk the country. There's also very little in up-state New York (which is mostly park land) that would cause lots of travel there from Vermont... If you're from the area it isn't as weird as it looks on a map.

If the Federal Reserve regions were actually causing the currency movements, why do regions 2, 3, 4, 5, 8, 12, and Louisiana not line up?

Re:What is really happening in Ukraine by gus_massa on Monday January 27, 2014 @01:07PM (#7131940)
I agree that the alignment is not perfect.

Previous previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5457329 (115 points, 304 days ago, 44 comments).

For #12, I think that the correct explanation is in the comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5459260 (by skwirl):

> I can do no more than guess, but I think you are right about the San Francisco district. It is a large district and the notes have to be physically carted back and forth to some distribution center, so it looks like they created three locations to do this - one in San Francisco, one in Seattle, and one in Salt Lake City.

My guess is that the other discrepancies are caused by strong economical and population integration of the areas and perhaps more subdistricts.

Re:What is really happening in Ukraine by wavefunction on Monday January 27, 2014 @11:05AM (#7131011)
Only realistic if you don't actually live in the United States. These European projections on how the US could devolve are pretty funny though, and say more about European bias than anything else.
Re:What is really happening in Ukraine by ynniv on Monday January 27, 2014 @11:14AM (#7131072)
I'm not sure which part of tracking the physical location of dollar bills you think has a European bias, but if means that much to you the project was completed at Northwestern University. The professor only later moved to a university in Europe. Please use your gray matter a little more before dispatching the fingers.
Re:What is really happening in Ukraine by wavefunction on Monday January 27, 2014 @11:54AM (#7131377)
>>gray matter a little more before dispatching the fingers

Yet you linked not to the original work but to a German site. I would also point out that assigning physical-proximity as a cultural marker due to the movement of currency is a terrible stand-in for actual cultural similarities. And cultural similarities are what we are concerned with here, if we're discussing the devolution of America based on cultural lines.

For instance, the map you provide has Colorado lumped in with Oklahoma, Kansas, and the rest of the Midwest. While these states are proximate physically, the culture between these states is completely different, which is why Colorado has legalized cannabis and OK has a monument on government property to the 10 Commandments. To lump Colorado in with the Midwest just shows how poor the methodology and modeling are.

How's that for some gray matter? Is it enough, or do I need more?

Re:What is really happening in Ukraine by ynniv on Monday January 27, 2014 @12:22PM (#7131613)
Yet you linked not to the original work but to a German site.

Don't be ridiculous, one links to the currently maintained version of a project.

While these states are proximate physically, the culture between these states is completely different

Citation needed. I lived in Colorado for a couple of years, and in my experience there is more similarity than difference between those places.

How's that for some gray matter? Is it enough, or do I need more?

It's better than commenting on a domain name, but there is no upper bound on insight.

Re:What is really happening in Ukraine by dragonwriter on Monday January 27, 2014 @11:45AM (#7131301)
> Why don't Americans split the USA into two parts, the red one and the blue one?

Because the "red" and "blue" states are artifacts of winner take all election, most of the country (by states) is actually a pretty similar shade of "purple" (at a lower level, like counties, you've got intensely "red" areas in "blue" states, and vice versa), and also because the partisan leanings aren't all that consistent over time.

Was that the intended analogy for the situation in the Ukraine?

Re:What is really happening in Ukraine by gaius on Monday January 27, 2014 @10:34AM (#7130804)
The Confederacy you mean? I seem to recall there was a bit of a problem with that...
Re:What is really happening in Ukraine by IgorPartola on Monday January 27, 2014 @10:33AM (#7130793)
Because the issue is not west vs east. Ukraine spent lots of time divided this way over the centuries and no it does not work any better than splitting the US into red and blue states.
Re:What is really happening in Ukraine by V-2 on Monday January 27, 2014 @10:21AM (#7130706)
"Why nobody suggests this solution?" - I don't know what your definition of "nobody" is, but eg. Dmytro Tabachnyk did suggest that
Re:What is really happening in Ukraine by hodgesmr on Monday January 27, 2014 @10:33AM (#7130788)
This worked so great with Germany...
Re:What is really happening in Ukraine by viraptor on Monday January 27, 2014 @11:00AM (#7130974)
What would be the alternative in this case? Leaving the country on its own with lots of angry people outside and with embargoes on most trade as a punishment? If that country was going to fail and start an upraising, someone would move in quickly to take it over completely.

Sure, it sucked for the east part. West part was doing quite well and still is.

Re:What is really happening in Ukraine by viach on Monday January 27, 2014 @11:00AM (#7130979)
-- Why don't you guys split Ukraine into two parts?

It won't blend then.