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Re:Why is the American dream dead in the south? by _delirium on Sunday January 26, 2014 @04:05PM (#7126898)
That's a fair criticism. It's certainly true that given some assumptions about random income changes, there's more mobility in narrower income distributions than wider ones without anything "real" happening. I do think it depends on what the study is trying to show, though, which in part depends on where in the web of arguments and counterarguments in falls.

One very common argument I hear from Americans is something like this: it's true that (some of) Europe has lower income inequality than the US. However, Europe's inequality is more entrenched and hereditary, and therefore actually worse than America's in social effects, even though in magnitude it seems less bad. The difference between wealthier and poorer parts of society, this argument goes, is higher in America, but this is not as harmful because the divergence is just based on what you make of yourself and changes generation to generation, rather than being based on rigid notions of class or heredity like in Europe and persisting across generations. So the European rich man might only be 10x as rich as the poor man, while the American one is 100x, but the European has this 10x difference predestined from birth, whereas the American's 100x arises only during life.

This study seems to show that particular narrative doesn't quite go through: the U.S. has a larger class divide and it persists across generations more than Europe's smaller class divide does. The second part may well be redundant, as you point out (it might only persist more because it's larger), but that doesn't necessarily make the problem any less bad.

Re:Why is the American dream dead in the south? by twoodfin on Sunday January 26, 2014 @04:19PM (#7126972)
My point is that I don't think it shows that, and just because the U.S. is such an "unequal" society. Moving from the 40th income percentile to the 20th in the U.S. represents a major absolute gain in income and presumably quality of life. I suspect it's not as dramatic a change in Denmark along either measure. To the survey, they're the same magnitude of change, and there's no accounting for the more impressive absolute change in the American case.
Re:Why is the American dream dead in the south? by _delirium on Sunday January 26, 2014 @04:23PM (#7126993)
But flipped the other way around, the more impressive American absolute change is only an artifact of its larger inequality. Danes are not moving around between $15k and $40k incomes, because nobody makes a $15k income (minimum wage is $38k/yr). So that whole bit of the "American dream" mobility has just been cut off, with no loss to society...

Relative position also matters quite a bit. In Denmark, you can be born on the lower end of society, and end up as one of the country's elites, with greater probability than is the case in the US. I take this as the "Horatio Alger" myth: you are born to a dock worker, and end up President of the USA, or CEO of a Big Company, a unique trajectory only possible in America. But you are actually more likely to make this dockworker-to-PM or dockworker-to-CEO transition in Denmark, contrary to the myth! Put differently, who constitutes the elite in Denmark is less determined by parentage, whereas the American political/economic/cultural elite is more heredity-determined, because the differences from birth are too large to overcome. I think this question of which stratum of the previous generation's families this generation's CEOs/etc. come from has significant implications for society: if it's only from last generation's top-20%, this produces a multi-generational elite, which is generally bad. It could well be that one way to combat the emergence of a multi-generational elite is simply to reduce income inequality.

Re:Why is the American dream dead in the south? by judk on Sunday January 26, 2014 @08:33PM (#7128150)
Hmm.

Steve Jobs

Sergey Brin

Jeff Bezos

David Koch

Michael Dell

Bill Clinton

Re:Why is the American dream dead in the south? by okaram on Sunday January 26, 2014 @10:31PM (#7128601)
And it may also have to do with your definition of 'dockworker' ; Dell's mom and dad were a stockbrocker and an orthodontist; Clinton was working-class but not poor; same with Jobs (he was adopted at birth, dad was a mechanic, and mom an accountant); Brin's dad is a Math prof and his mom works at NASA; seems Koch's grandad was wealthy (I can't find more on wikipedia; it also says he went to MIT and doesn't mention scholarships, so his family was probably well-off).
Re:Why is the American dream dead in the south? by stuaxo on Monday January 27, 2014 @06:22AM (#7129784)
Re:Why is the American dream dead in the south? by _delirium on Monday January 27, 2014 @06:51AM (#7129876)
I didn't argue that no Americans from poor families become part of the elite, only that it seems to happen at a lower rate than in Denmark. That's what the quintile-mobility figures are measuring, after all.
Re:Why is the American dream dead in the south? by d23 on Sunday January 26, 2014 @09:59PM (#7128470)
Hmm.

(Your list) * (20000000 other people)

Re:Why is the American dream dead in the south? by yxhuvud on Sunday January 26, 2014 @04:24PM (#7127000)
Something to remember though is that Europe is large and diverse, and while a similar map to this one would show really light areas in the Scandinavian countries, it would also have large darker parts in other regions.
Re:Why is the American dream dead in the south? by nostromo on Sunday January 26, 2014 @05:21PM (#7127279)
yup: http://i.imgur.com/JifAPWE.jpg

"kaufkraftindex je einwohner" -> "purchasing power per capita"