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Re:Obama presents NSA reforms with plan to end government st... by rayiner on Friday January 17, 2014 @03:20PM (#7078183)
Smith v. Maryland squarely says that your privacy interest in your phone calls ends to the extent that your phone call metadata is exposed to third parties. That's not a "loophole" it's a delineation of the boundary of the right. And leveraging Smith v. Maryland isn't taking advantage of a loophole in a "completely different context" but rather applying the reasoning of the case in the same context in which the case arose: is it a search to collect the meta-data of a phone call from the phone company? You may think Smith v. Maryland needs to be overturned, but for now, the NSA is entitled to rely on it.

As for the "intent of fundamental laws" the intent of the 4th amendment was to prevent customs officials from trespassing on private property. The founders never talked about the "right of privacy" as a coherent concept. The "right to privacy" was conjured from the "penumbras" of the Constitution (i.e. thin air) just a couple of decades before Smith v. Maryland was decided.

Re:Obama presents NSA reforms with plan to end government st... by glitchdout on Friday January 17, 2014 @09:21PM (#7079747)
What exactly is the point you're trying to make here? That this is all legal? They have at least violated the SPIRIT of the law.

Also, you are ignoring all other reports that the NSA is storing CONTENT of every means of communication.

Just this week, it was revealed that they store hundreds of millions of text messages:

* http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/16/nsa-collects-mi...

They also store every single phone call made in the US:

* http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/government_programs/july-dec1...

* http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57589495-38/nsa-spying-fla...

Oh, and thinking about using Skype? Also tapped:

* http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/07/nsa-taps-skype-ch...

Re:Obama presents NSA reforms with plan to end government st... by rayiner on Friday January 17, 2014 @11:25PM (#7080067)
> What exactly is the point you're trying to make here? That this is all legal? They have at least violated the SPIRIT of the law.

The "spirit" of the law is to keep government agents from trespassing on your property looking for contraband. The "right of privacy" wasn't conjured out of thin air by the Supreme Court until the 1960's. Collecting information under the Third Party Doctrine violates neither the letter nor the spirit of the 4th amendment.

> Just this week, it was revealed that they store hundreds of millions of text messages:

Are they the text messages of Americans?

> They also store every single phone call made in the US:

If they store every phone call made in the U.S. that would definitely be illegal. But the evidence that they do this is much flimsier than for the other things we know they do.

Re:Obama presents NSA reforms with plan to end government st... by knowaveragejoe on Saturday January 18, 2014 @07:36PM (#7082914)
I think his point is that ultimately what matters is whether these abilities are being abused, particularly for something like political ends - so far we've seen only a few isolated cases towards personal ends(and the nsa did not protect those people). Given the size of the organization I think it's safe to say that that is within the bounds of statistical probability.