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Re:Windows 9 in 2015: Desperation isn't pretty by jagermo on Thursday January 16, 2014 @12:32PM (#7070893)
"Worse then Vista"? Sorry, let me stop this guy right there - this is just utter populistic crap.

Personally, I have no problems with Windows 8, I even prefer it to 7 (or Android) on touch enabled devices. This might be the "Windows Blue Hype" all over again.

Re:Windows 9 in 2015: Desperation isn't pretty by mnglkhn2 on Thursday January 16, 2014 @01:01PM (#7071183)
The low adoption levels for Windows 8/8.1 are a result of their own success: you have a set of robust/reliable older versions that are still doing their tasks just fine. If the corporate world does not see the benefit, then there is no hurry to chuck what they currently have in favor of the new stuff, no matter how good. I personally like Win 8/8.1, (I admit, not for the Metro stuff) especially since I am a developer. The out of the box availability of Hyper-V seems super cool to me. It is so easy to build up new VMs (both Win and Linux). Also, you can boot directly off of a VHD VM, which is also pretty cool.

As I said, it is the business side of things that slows down the adoption in the corporate world. And to make it a double whammy, the consumer market is massively going to the tablet side.

Re:Windows 9 in 2015: Desperation isn't pretty by Jare on Thursday January 16, 2014 @12:49PM (#7071059)
Anecdotally, Vista to me was absolutely flawless: rock solid in the way 2000 used to be and XP never was, performant thanks to a real 64 bit version (XP 64 was a very ugly hack) and great looking (vs the XP playskool look I could never get used to).

The reason was I had a brand new, powerful rig and no legacy hardware.

Re:Windows 9 in 2015: Desperation isn't pretty by dragonwriter on Thursday January 16, 2014 @12:47PM (#7071042)
> Personally, I have no problems with Windows 8, I even prefer it to 7 (or Android) on touch enabled devices.

Even on non-touch devices, the big problems I have with Win 8/8.1 are solved by readily available third party software that gives you back a Win 7 style task bar / Start Menu (and, actually, I prefer and use this on my touchscreen laptop, as well.) AFAICT, Win 8 is an all-around improvement except for basically one highly-visible but trivially correctable UI decision for keyboard-centric devices.

Re:Windows 9 in 2015: Desperation isn't pretty by astral303 on Thursday January 16, 2014 @12:49PM (#7071067)
Care to list some examples of such software?

I don't think it's acceptable that I have to use third-party software (and most of it, last time I looked, was either additional cost or sketchy not-sure-if-free-or-spyware variety) just to make the thing usable.

Re:Windows 9 in 2015: Desperation isn't pretty by dragonwriter on Thursday January 16, 2014 @01:02PM (#7071195)
> Care to list some examples of such software?

The one I use is Classic Shell [1]. The current version is free (gratis) but not Free/Open Source. There is an earlier Open Source version.

> I don't think it's acceptable that I have to use third-party software (and most of it, last time I looked, was either additional cost or sketchy not-sure-if-free-or-spyware variety) just to make the thing usable.

IMO, its quite usable as-is, though I like the UI less for desktop/laptop use than the Win 7 UI because of the lack of the Start Menu, so I prefer to use the available third-party software to fix that; with that third-party software, I find it better than Win 7 entirely.

[1] http://www.classicshell.net/

Re:Windows 9 in 2015: Desperation isn't pretty by secabeen on Thursday January 16, 2014 @12:53PM (#7071109)
The free one is Classic Start Menu, and the very inexpensive one ($5) is Start8.
Re:Windows 9 in 2015: Desperation isn't pretty by epmatsw on Thursday January 16, 2014 @12:49PM (#7071064)
I don't think that installing 3rd party software to fix core UI issues is trivial. I think that something like that would never occur to the vast majority of Windows users.
Re:Windows 9 in 2015: Desperation isn't pretty by dragonwriter on Thursday January 16, 2014 @01:04PM (#7071229)
> I don't think that installing 3rd party software to fix core UI issues is trivial.

I meant trivial for me. I agree that its not trivial in the market.

Re:Windows 9 in 2015: Desperation isn't pretty by epmatsw on Thursday January 16, 2014 @01:49PM (#7071579)
Fair enough.
Re:Windows 9 in 2015: Desperation isn't pretty by sp332 on Thursday January 16, 2014 @12:53PM (#7071105)
I don't have Win8 but I have seen people use it. How is the UI different for keyboards? Don't you still just tap the "Windows" button and then type what you want?
Re:Windows 9 in 2015: Desperation isn't pretty by dragonwriter on Thursday January 16, 2014 @01:14PM (#7071297)
> I don't have Win8 but I have seen people use it. How is the UI different for keyboards?

Its not different from Win 7 for people who never take their hands off the keyboard.

Its different for people who use pointing devices, though, since the Start Menu (not the "Start Button", which Win 8.1 restored and Win 8 had a close equivalent) is replaced with the touch optimized Start Screen which takes a lot more pointing device movement to get to options than the old Start Menu.

Re:Windows 9 in 2015: Desperation isn't pretty by caw on Thursday January 16, 2014 @01:00PM (#7071176)
That's how I use it. If anything I click on a button that filters files, programs, or system settings.
Re:Windows 9 in 2015: Desperation isn't pretty by Conlectus on Thursday January 16, 2014 @02:03PM (#7071700)
Yes. Pressing windows and typing starts searching for a program.
Re:Windows 9 in 2015: Desperation isn't pretty by sliverstorm on Thursday January 16, 2014 @01:03PM (#7071216)
People are upset that they have to tap the "Windows" button instead of clicking the start menu button. Nevermind that Microsoft added the start button back in 8.1

IMO it's an almost absurdly trivial issue contrasted against holistic moderate improvements across the rest of the OS. Maybe a learning case-study on how narrow, particular elements of user experience & perception can turn against you...

Re:Windows 9 in 2015: Desperation isn't pretty by sp332 on Thursday January 16, 2014 @01:07PM (#7071246)
There was always a Start button in Win8.0, which was demonstrated during the initial welcome screens. Hold your mouse in the upper-right corner to open the Charms menu, then click the start button there. (Edited for clarity)
Re:Windows 9 in 2015: Desperation isn't pretty by sliverstorm on Thursday January 16, 2014 @01:08PM (#7071258)
Now I can't remember if the lower-left-corner-hover was present in Win8.0. I know there was always the button in the system menu (right edge swipe).

(I'm pretty sure the link you provide has been updated for Win8.1)

Re:Windows 9 in 2015: Desperation isn't pretty by sp332 on Thursday January 16, 2014 @01:15PM (#7071304)
Here's a better link from late 2012 http://howto.cnet.com/8301-11310_39-57534694-285/how-to-retu... Seems it was always there.
Re:Windows 9 in 2015: Desperation isn't pretty by cpleppert on Thursday January 16, 2014 @01:09PM (#7071263)
>> AFAICT, Win 8 is an all-around improvement except for basically one highly-visible but trivially correctable UI decision for keyboard-centric devices.

Requiring a non-supported hack to get around a central design decision doesn't work for the vast majority of users who expect it to just work. This highly visible UI decision is the whole point behind windows 8 and is central to the way Microsoft wants you to interact with the OS. If you aren't using the metro/modern apps there is no point in windows 8.

The 'improvements' are very modest over windows 8 and none of them have anything to do with the way the vast majority of users expect to be able to use the desktop. You still need to get into windows 8 stuff to perform basic tasks like changing settings or shutting down the computer(! yes, i am aware of other ways to do it but the average user is stuck). I still find the magic corner stuff like the charms bar in windows 8 to be totally jarring and strange and I am very technically proficient.

Re:Windows 9 in 2015: Desperation isn't pretty by dzhiurgis on Thursday January 16, 2014 @12:52PM (#7071091)
Corporate are not too keen on installing third party fixes.

We have couple of XP machines that would run perfectly well for another 5 years if we upgrade them to SSDs. The thing is, Windows 7 costs twice as much as 8. Odd strategy MS.

Re:Windows 9 in 2015: Desperation isn't pretty by dragonwriter on Thursday January 16, 2014 @01:07PM (#7071252)
> Corporate are not too keen on installing third party fixes.

On the other hand, corporate is often keen on throwing more money at Microsoft when better, less-expensive options -- whether OS, application, or anything else -- are available, so insofar as the UI issue is an issue for corporate users, it could probably be fixed by Microsoft releasing an $50/seat, centrally-deployable Windows 8 Corporate Interface Pack that restored the Start Menu on Windows 8 machines.

Re:Windows 9 in 2015: Desperation isn't pretty by secabeen on Thursday January 16, 2014 @12:55PM (#7071120)
Windows 8.X Pro licenses generally include Windows 7 downgrade rights. Can you just buy Windows 8.1 Pro?
Re:Windows 9 in 2015: Desperation isn't pretty by circa on Thursday January 16, 2014 @01:17PM (#7071311)
I think it only applies to volume licensing but I am not 100% sure on that.
Re:Windows 9 in 2015: Desperation isn't pretty by nemothekid on Thursday January 16, 2014 @01:03PM (#7071211)
As stated in another article (http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9245321/Steven_J._Vau...), when he says "worse than vista" he means lower market adoption rate.
Re:Windows 9 in 2015: Desperation isn't pretty by sterwill on Thursday January 16, 2014 @12:44PM (#7071009)
I think the author means the sales of Windows 8 have been worse than Vista's. I don't think it's a qualitative judgment of the product.
Re:Windows 9 in 2015: Desperation isn't pretty by vezycash on Thursday January 16, 2014 @02:37PM (#7071958)
If the author can not perform a basic task of getting out his thoughts clearly, he stop writing!

Few people will see this clarification and become misinformed.

Re:Windows 9 in 2015: Desperation isn't pretty by nemothekid on Thursday January 16, 2014 @03:13PM (#7072203)
Howso? Windows 8 is objectively worse than Vista. How is that not clear? On any measurable metric, the author is right.
Re:Windows 9 in 2015: Desperation isn't pretty by vezycash on Thursday January 16, 2014 @02:31PM (#7071916)
Author says win 8.1's install base is 25 million... Wrong conclusion.

The real issue is that some sets of pot smoking bozos decided to make upgrading from 8.0 to 8.1 a freaking pain, nightmare... Even for those with real broadband took days to upgrade!

Four windows 8 laptops in my house. No broadband internet and i have to download 3.5gb of stuff four times?

This stupid 'app store', inflexible control freak mentality is what will kill microsoft.

Re:Windows 9 in 2015: Desperation isn't pretty by clhodapp on Thursday January 16, 2014 @12:48PM (#7071053)
You act like things were any different with Vista... Most of the anti-Vista sentiment was also what you refer to as 'utter populistic crap' (though I don't think that phrase is actually applicable to what I think you mean).
Re:Windows 9 in 2015: Desperation isn't pretty by dkl on Thursday January 16, 2014 @01:08PM (#7071256)
I even prefer it to 7 (or Android) on touch enabled devices

A lot of us aren't. And we hate Windows 8.