News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:NSA Coworker Remembers Edward Snowden: "A Genius Among Ge... by sliverstorm on Monday December 16, 2013 @01:58PM (#6916969)
The US doesn't govern non-citizens. Most people don't see why people who do not pay taxes, obey US laws, etc have to be treated with all the perks of US citizens. Recall a feudal model, where a lord governs his people and protects them, but is not generally obligated to extend his protection to non-subjects.

It's not a belief that foreigners have no rights, but more like foreigners have their own government to watch out for them.

I don't really know which I personally believe, just sharing information.

Re:NSA Coworker Remembers Edward Snowden: "A Genius Among Ge... by sitkack on Monday December 16, 2013 @03:00PM (#6917398)
Not infringing on freedom isn't a perk, it is a natural born right. We don't live in feudal states, with live in the United States. "The People" formed the Union and wrote the exact rules that the government could operate under. You aren't granted rights by the Constitution. They are removed from federal government, the Constitution takes rights away from the federal government. A very important distinction.
Re:NSA Coworker Remembers Edward Snowden: "A Genius Among Ge... by sliverstorm on Monday December 16, 2013 @03:03PM (#6917415)
I'm not a constitutional scholar, but as I discussed in my other reply in this little alcove of the discussion- the Constitution appears to operate on US citizens (The People), not humanity:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union...

Re:NSA Coworker Remembers Edward Snowden: "A Genius Among Ge... by aplusbi on Monday December 16, 2013 @03:24PM (#6917566)
The constitution makes a distinction between "person" and "citizen" and is careful to grant rights to "people" and not just "citizens". This is why freedom of speech applies to illegal immigrants and visitors and not just US citizens.
Re:NSA Coworker Remembers Edward Snowden: "A Genius Among Ge... by sliverstorm on Monday December 16, 2013 @03:34PM (#6917619)
This is why freedom of speech applies to illegal immigrants and visitors

Not if we read the text:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Extracting the relevant bit:

Congress shall make no law... abridging the freedom of speech

Illegal immigrants and visitors "have" free speech because no laws may be enacted against it, period.

Re:NSA Coworker Remembers Edward Snowden: "A Genius Among Ge... by aplusbi on Monday December 16, 2013 @04:59PM (#6918130)
You're missing the forest for the trees, but if it will make you happy, "congress shall make no law...abridging...the right of the people peaceably to assemble".

Illegal immigrants and visitors have the right to assembly because no laws may be enacted against people assembling, not just citizens assembling.

And perhaps more significantly, let's look at the 14th amendment (which I really should have started with in the first place):

>All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Here there is a clear distinction between citizen and person

Re:NSA Coworker Remembers Edward Snowden: "A Genius Among Ge... by sliverstorm on Monday December 16, 2013 @06:01PM (#6918453)
Here there is a clear distinction between citizen and person

Yes, there is. There is also a clear distinction between which persons it applies to and which it doesn't;

> ... nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws

[deleted]
Re:NSA Coworker Remembers Edward Snowden: "A Genius Among Ge... by sliverstorm on Monday December 16, 2013 @02:55PM (#6917371)
I ask you to consider, who are The People? (The ones whose rights we are securing in that text) It's used repeatedly but never formally defined.

There is a clue though:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union...