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Re:Google Removes Vital Privacy Feature From Android, Claims... by Nursie on Friday December 13, 2013 @06:43AM (#6900075)
One of the issues with that is that devices on ARM systems are not as discoverable as a lot of other systems. You tend to need a kernel built for a particular processor variant, and it needs a device map of some sort for your specific device or it won't know how to find any of the stuff on the board and may just crash. Without this map you just can't boot.

Graphics are also very non-open at the moment, so it can be very hard to install other operating systems in a useful way for that reason.

In theory though, I agree entirely, that would be nice :)

Re:Google Removes Vital Privacy Feature From Android, Claims... by nileshtrivedi on Friday December 13, 2013 @07:21AM (#6900163)
Linux supports Device Tree mechanism which solves this issue. You would download a kernel for the correct processor and a .dts file that describes the phone's hardware.
Re:Google Removes Vital Privacy Feature From Android, Claims... by Nursie on Friday December 13, 2013 @07:35AM (#6900195)
Has this made it to mainline/release yet? I've been doing some ARM kernel support stuff for one of my devices, and DeviceTree isn't there even in 3.11.x (AFAICT)

Previously you had a bit of boilerplate code that did much the same. Either way it doesn't actually solve the issue, because you still need the dts file, there's no hardware discovery.

(ok that's a bit of a stretch, some of the busses and things like I2C are discoverable, but you need a map of GPIOs, UARTs etc etc)

Re:Google Removes Vital Privacy Feature From Android, Claims... by bjackman on Friday December 13, 2013 @08:11AM (#6900300)
http://www.linaro.org/linaro-blog/2011/08/15/enabling-device...

The Linaro kernels ("Linaro Stable Kernel" is the keyphrase) boot from devicetrees (aka FDTs). Not sure how much of that is upstreamed, but devicetrees are pretty standard in the ARM world as far as I can tell. (Also, in general if you're doing Linux stuff on ARM, Linaro is the place to look for everything).

Edit: actually, that link isn't very relevant - I just lazily googled "linaro devicetree". But you should be able to find more info!

Re:Google Removes Vital Privacy Feature From Android, Claims... by Nursie on Friday December 13, 2013 @08:38AM (#6900379)
I'm a debian kinda guy and have been playing with both debian and mainline kernels, and haven't come across it yet, it may be that the ARM maintainers keep it on a separate branch for now.

I'll investigate Linaro at some point, if that's more of a hotbed of ARM development.

Re:Google Removes Vital Privacy Feature From Android, Claims... by nileshtrivedi on Friday December 13, 2013 @07:58AM (#6900260)
Here are the LWN articles on Device Tree from June/July. Not sure how things have changed:

https://lwn.net/Articles/560523/ https://lwn.net/Articles/561462/

Re:Google Removes Vital Privacy Feature From Android, Claims... by Nursie on Friday December 13, 2013 @08:40AM (#6900393)
I'm not sure how things have changed yet either, and I certainly think Device Tree is an important step forward from each and every board having its own (mostly identical) code in the kernel tree.

But you do still need the dts, so while it makes device support easier, it doesn't solve the problem of discoverable hardware and you still need board specs etc, either from the original manufacturer or reverse engineered.

Re:Google Removes Vital Privacy Feature From Android, Claims... by nitrogen on Friday December 13, 2013 @12:52PM (#6901838)
So the next step is convincing manufacturers to put the .dts at a predictable location on a small flash or EEPROM.
Re:Google Removes Vital Privacy Feature From Android, Claims... by Nursie on Friday December 13, 2013 @01:28PM (#6902029)
I wish you the best of luck in convincing MS to make it easier to install linux on their phones, and convincing embedded system builders to spend extra on hardware.

Either way, I was talking about what we have now, and even if we have device tree now it doesn't solve this problem without other pieces to the puzzle. And that's without even getting on to the mess of closed source graphics drivers that exist in the arm world.

Please don't think I'm trying to say we can't have a situation like the OP wants, I'm just trying to explain why we don't.

Re:Google Removes Vital Privacy Feature From Android, Claims... by nitrogen on Friday December 13, 2013 @02:27PM (#6902361)
I thought Linaro was a consortium to do exactly that, minus the Microsoft part. As you say this doesn't help us now, but hopefully some day there will be a widespread ARM equivalent of the BIOS and UEFI. It will probably start (or has started?) with ARM servers.
Re:Google Removes Vital Privacy Feature From Android, Claims... by Nursie on Friday December 13, 2013 @02:37PM (#6902438)
Cool.

All the more reason for me to get up to speed with Linaro then, thanks for the heads up :)