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Re:Why was this secret? by jarrett on Wednesday December 11, 2013 @05:57PM (#6891492)
In the context of coding projects, the author's conclusion seems realistic.

Given current events though, I can't help but wonder if there's a subtext about privacy and snooping. If so, then I would venture this observation: Your friend's super-secret diary is meaningless to you only because you have no desire to abuse the access you've been given. Suppose instead your friend's devious enemy obtained the diary. Then, he could probably use it to damage your friend's relationships and/or career.

Now imagine a dystopian future when all such diaries are available to a privileged subset of society. Imagine the power that subset would hold, and all the ways it would likely be abused.

Unless we want to ensure our every communication and personal note is fit for public consumption, some things are by definition our secrets.

Re:Why was this secret? by jfoutz on Wednesday December 11, 2013 @06:11PM (#6891571)
For me, the information asymmetry is what's upsetting. Everyone's location data being free and public seems, well, ok to me. But no exceptions for any reason.
Re:Why was this secret? by jacalata on Wednesday December 11, 2013 @06:46PM (#6891742)
Really? You think that, for instance, someone trying to leave an abusive partner doesn't have more reason to want their whereabouts unknown than someone with no psychotic acquaintances? Someone who turned state's witness against their drug dealer friends?
Re:Why was this secret? by amirmc on Wednesday December 11, 2013 @06:56PM (#6891810)
Let's flip that around. The key point would be "everyone's location ... No exceptions". Then you'd know if that abusive partner was approaching you (and call relevant authorities). The dealers would probably also be known without needing a witness. Of course, we'd also know who was sleeping with whom and when.

It's an interesting thought experiment to imagine such a world but for it to be viable, society would have to have very different views on a lot of things.

Re:Why was this secret? by alecdbrooks on Wednesday December 11, 2013 @07:29PM (#6891967)
I don't think someone fleeing an abusive partner would necessarily benefit as much from knowing the abuser's location as much as the abuser would benefit from the victim's location. The information would be symmetric, but the value from it might not be.

Maybe the abuser has a car and victim is relying on mass transit. Or maybe the victim's best bet is staying with a friend whose residence is unknown to the abuser.

Re:Why was this secret? by gnaffle on Wednesday December 11, 2013 @07:53PM (#6892053)
Agreed. I think even arguing this point shows a lack of understanding of how these cases work. Believing that information equality is the same as power equality is a fallacy.
Re:Why was this secret? by fennecfoxen on Wednesday December 11, 2013 @09:25PM (#6892472)
That said, information equality does suggest a marginally higher baseline of power-sharing than gross information inequality is able to achieve.
Re:Why was this secret? by panzi on Wednesday December 11, 2013 @08:05PM (#6892110)
In the case of witness protection: The witness does not know every member of the mafia, but the mafia knows the witness. There is inherently an asymmetry of power in such situations.
Re:Why was this secret? by BHSPitMonkey on Wednesday December 11, 2013 @07:05PM (#6891855)
The abused wouldn't be able to track their abuser's allies without knowing who they all were.
Re:Why was this secret? by TeMPOraL on Wednesday December 11, 2013 @07:17PM (#6891904)
But if any of the abuser's allies did anything to the abused, they could be easily identified and tracked down; this could act as a deterrent.
Re:Why was this secret? by mcintyre1994 on Wednesday December 11, 2013 @08:21PM (#6892195)
If we're not capping the level of abuse it could easily be too late though. Let's take it to the extreme, somebody wants to kill you and you have no choice but to broadcast your location to everybody. Some people receiving that data, you don't know who, are happy to do the killing for the person who wants to kill you. Afterward they can be identified and tracked down, but at this extremity it's too late.
Re:Why was this secret? by matz1 on Wednesday December 11, 2013 @08:39PM (#6892290)
The punishment for killing is the deterrent.
Re:Why was this secret? by ShirtlessRod on Wednesday December 11, 2013 @08:57PM (#6892381)
For people that have rational minds. What about people who are irrational or have some sort of mental illness? I guess that's just a "too bad" for the person who is now dead?
Re:Why was this secret? by matz1 on Thursday December 12, 2013 @06:25AM (#6893902)
Yes its too bad when I'm dead. I could done anything I could have done to prevent that but there will always be somebody who are irrational or have some sort mental illness or anybody who could eventually find a way to kill me if they really want to. This is happen in open or private society.
Re:Why was this secret? by dinkumthinkum on Wednesday December 11, 2013 @09:31PM (#6892491)
You're being ridiculous. So if someone has someone else they fear will hurt then, there is no reason whatever that that dangerous person shouldn't know their whereabouts because in principle it is possible for the potential victim to know their whereabouts?

Assuming most people on HN are good programmers, there is clearly no linkage between a person's ability to write RoR code and how to reason about normal things in the world. I'm just being honest.

Re:Why was this secret? by lesserknowndan on Wednesday December 11, 2013 @08:40PM (#6892294)
Assuming that the location is based on tracking a mobile phone, the aggressor could quite easily leave their phone at home and if they need a phone take an unregistered one.

The problem with open information is that those with evil intent can take precautions to ensure their activities aren't monitored.

Re:Why was this secret? by matz1 on Wednesday December 11, 2013 @08:48PM (#6892340)
This is not the problem with open society in itself. The same problem happen in private society. Anybody motivated enough can hack through your secret given enough effort.
Re:Why was this secret? by ShirtlessRod on Wednesday December 11, 2013 @08:58PM (#6892393)
"Given enough effort" is the key there. Just because someone can break into your house given enough effort doesn't mean you leave your doors off the hinges.
Re:Why was this secret? by matz1 on Thursday December 12, 2013 @06:26AM (#6893906)
I would not even need to lock my doors.
Re:Why was this secret? by ShirtlessRod on Thursday December 12, 2013 @05:33PM (#6897739)
I'm very happy for you that you feel that you not in a position where that is a risky step. Are you able to fathom that others may not be in that same situation, or are you content to be blasé to their differing circumstances?
Re:Why was this secret? by kisielk on Wednesday December 11, 2013 @06:53PM (#6891793)
On the other hand if they and everybody else knew the whereabouts of their abusive partner, wouldn't that actually contribute to their safety?
Re:Why was this secret? by differentView on Wednesday December 11, 2013 @07:37PM (#6892003)
How so? Are you going to stay awake 24/7 to stop those abusers when they get too close to their victims?
Re:Why was this secret? by justinlilly on Wednesday December 11, 2013 @07:52PM (#6892049)
If the theoretical data is available on the theoretical abuser, the police could monitor it, or you could have a non-profit service which monitors the proximity and alerts authorities / sends a "get out of the house" message to you.
Re:Why was this secret? by gnaffle on Wednesday December 11, 2013 @07:55PM (#6892061)
So, instead of living a life in relative safety, you get to spend the rest of your life on alert and in fear. I really don't see how you can argue that this would be an acceptable solution.
Re:Why was this secret? by matz1 on Wednesday December 11, 2013 @08:24PM (#6892210)
No I would have no problem if they just watch, only if they did something hurt then its problem. In open society they can be tracked easily.
Re:Why was this secret? by gnaffle on Wednesday December 11, 2013 @08:26PM (#6892232)
Great for you, but I think that you understand that not everyone would feel the same in such a situation?
Re:Why was this secret? by differentView on Thursday December 12, 2013 @12:48PM (#6895810)
The most theoretical part of such a scenario is the police force that follows procedures perfectly and aren't ever overworked.
Re:Why was this secret? by Ygg2 on Wednesday December 11, 2013 @07:07PM (#6891869)
Assuming such data isn't easily falsified.
Re:Why was this secret? by lennydizzy on Wednesday December 11, 2013 @09:58PM (#6892555)
The problem is you can not make the judgement, that making everyone's location public is ok, for everyone. People have different preferences towards their privacy. We should respect other's choice.
Re:Why was this secret? by blah32497 on Wednesday December 11, 2013 @06:25PM (#6891659)
The reasons for privacy are always so contrived. "Dystopian futures", "enemies trying to ruin lives" etc. etc. It never resonates with me.

I think what the author is trying to say is that if you live an open life with few secrets, then your life will be less stressful. He's encouraging us to really reevaluate what we keep secret b/c when you sit down to think about it, it's most likely all in your head.

Re:Why was this secret? by coldtea on Wednesday December 11, 2013 @06:53PM (#6891791)
>The reasons for privacy are always so contrived. "Dystopian futures", "enemies trying to ruin lives" etc. etc. It never resonates with me.

That's because you're an average Joe.

And even you, you use a pseudonymous account name here on HN.

Now think of all the lives of change-makers, dissidents, activists etc that were fucked up with the use of such private information (from their sexual preferences to who they meet), under all kinds of regimes, in the US and abroad.

Try reading how some of the pioneers of civil rights for blacks were treated, for example, what kind of files were kept on them, how they were setup and pressured etc. It's not like MLK emerged from nowhere, said "I have a dream" and everybody cheered and that was that.

Heck, you don't even have to go that far. Even opinions expressed on HN can get people fired from their jobs if they go public. Even mild ones, including mere jokes said in private: a guy was fired for telling a "dongle" joke to his friend at a conference -- because someone eavesdropped.

Plus, your notion pressuposes that things will always be totally fine (save a "dystopian future"), and nothing will ever make citizens question the government, big corporations, etc. Which does not hold, really. From McCarthyism to the Civil Rights movement, down to the Vietnam War protests and recent stuff like Occupy Wall Street, there's always such discord, and there will be even more in a future with rising inequality and diminishing middle class.

Hundrends of millions (perhaps including you) might continue to be oblivious to all this (as they were oblivious about Vietnam War protests and/or rock n' roll in rural Idaho), but tens of millions were and will be affected.

Re:Why was this secret? by gnaffle on Wednesday December 11, 2013 @07:21PM (#6891926)
Thanks for this post. This is exactly the issue. No dystopian future is needed to prove the value of privacy, one only has to look back at history to see that.
Re:Why was this secret? by blah32497 on Wednesday December 11, 2013 @07:11PM (#6891888)
> That's because you're an average Joe.

And I think this article is written targeting the average Joe. Everyone is getting off on tangents about how the gov't is going to go fascist and that privacy is the best thing in the world.

He isn't arguing that privacy is inherently bad, or you should never ever have secrets. Yeah, if your trying to overthrow an fascist regime, it makes sense to have secrets. But again, that's a contrived reason. If you're MLK, that's not really the norm.

The point Mr.Sivers making is - generally people have more secrets than they really need and in the process they're making their lives more stressful. He's suggesting trying to re-evulate your need for privacy (I'm repeating myself).

It's just a call for some self reflection. Everyone needs to chill out a bit.

Re:Why was this secret? by foobarqux on Wednesday December 11, 2013 @07:24PM (#6891938)
If you're a black person what happens to MLK-type figures matters to you, even if you're not them.

You don't get it: You can't have democracy in a surveillance state.

Re:Why was this secret? by gnaffle on Wednesday December 11, 2013 @07:38PM (#6892009)
It's not even about the surveillance state. You never know what will happen in the future and who will use the information. Maybe you're happy with the code you write now, but in 5 years you may regret publishing it for everyone to laugh about. I'm old enough that there are some pretty embarassing usenet posts from me archived forever. Luckily they take quite a while to find nowadays, but I've certainly learnt my lesson.
Re:Why was this secret? by PeterisP on Thursday December 12, 2013 @05:23AM (#6893735)
You definitely can have democracy in a transparent state - what happens to MLK type figures is not related to what potential oppressors know about MLK (they already knew all they needed to) but instead what they're allowed to do to restrict MLK.
Re:Why was this secret? by foobarqux on Thursday December 12, 2013 @03:51PM (#6897153)
I assume you meant surveillance state.

It's nonsensical: In what way do you propose to not make the subject of surveillance disempowered?

Re:Why was this secret? by PeterisP on Thursday December 12, 2013 @04:01PM (#6897232)
In what way was MLK disempowered by the fact that FBI knew all about his personal life, travel plans, who he communicated with and so on?

The key is that government should be unable to prevent you from excercising your rights to action despite knowing that you want to change things. If you really need to conspire in secrecy, then it's probably already too late for anything other than an armed revolution to fix that.

Re:Why was this secret? by foobarqux on Thursday December 12, 2013 @04:12PM (#6897320)
They blackmailed him using the fact that he was having an affair for example. The rule obviously can't be "you can't tell anyone person X is having an affair".

>The key is that government should be unable to prevent you from exercising your rights to action

No that's not the key. Severely impairing your ability to act or discouraging action by causing pain is essentially as effective as outright prohibition as is lowering someone's public esteem.

Re:Why was this secret? by dreamfactory on Wednesday December 11, 2013 @07:22PM (#6891932)
That's a variant on 'nothing to hide nothing to fear'. Plenty of average Joes in East Germany under the Stasi may disagree with that notion being even potentially benign in its outcome. I'd imagine you have doors and curtains/blinds in your house - most people do and it's not out of neurosis and paranoia.
Re:Why was this secret? by spagina09 on Thursday December 12, 2013 @01:41AM (#6893138)
Or further,

Good fences make good neighbors.

It's not because I dislike my neighbors, I just like being able to not look at them and enjoy my home in privacy.

Re:Why was this secret? by hrkristian on Wednesday December 11, 2013 @07:38PM (#6892008)
Invasion vs invitation.

I'd happily share 99% (maybe even all) of my life with the whole world, every step taken and every breath taken, but that would be on my terms. (I kinda am, by agreeing to everything Google asks of me)

Would James Buchanan have a chance at becoming the President of the Unites States in today's society? Assuming he actually was gay: would a 2013 version of James Buchanan be able to keep that a secret if the right person in the right chain of command happened to be ill-willed?

Re:Why was this secret? by gnaffle on Wednesday December 11, 2013 @07:33PM (#6891986)
But I think that's completely untrue. I'd rather argue that most people are too oblivious about what they should and shouldn't keep secret.

What in general would you say people keep secret that adds to their stress?

Maybe some people here on HN might be over the top paranoid, but Joe Average? Sure, maybe they shouldn't have that secret affair and hide it from their spouse, but they probably already know that's a bad thing.

Re:Why was this secret? by coldtea on Wednesday December 11, 2013 @08:07PM (#6892122)
>He isn't arguing that privacy is inherently bad, or you should never ever have secrets. Yeah, if your trying to overthrow an fascist regime, it makes sense to have secrets. But again, that's a contrived reason. If you're MLK, that's not really the norm.

That's a contrived reason too.

For one, it SHOULD be the norm. "Be the change you want to see in the world" and everything. It's not just something to pay lip service to.

Second, it doesn't matter if it "only" affects only 1 in 100,000, because what those 1 in 100,000 do affects millions of lives themselves. Heck, MLK was 1 in 250,000,000 and he affected the whole of the US.

>The point Mr.Sivers making is - generally people have more secrets than they really need and in the process they're making their lives more stressful. He's suggesting trying to re-evulate your need for privacy (I'm repeating myself).

Given the widespread violations of privacy, such an attitude is harmful even on the personal level. It can be seen as essentially a "giving up" to pressure from the goverment/spying corporations like Google.

But it gets worse, because it's also quite trivial, and the example he gives is bad. His friend might not mind showing him her "private notebook", because he is just a friend (probably not even a close one at that, since all of the stuff she wrote, he said it was irrelevant to him).

How about showing that same notebook to her husband, her children, her parents, her boss, close friends, some person she writes negatively about etc? Despite her giving lip service to openess, there's a reason she reffered to it as "ultra secret".

There are lots of secrets people want to have. And not just some MLK types: hundrends of millions of people.

How about trying to smoke a joint in the privacy of your own home?

According to some stats, tens of millions have done it, including in states that it's illegal. Should they all go to jail?

Or have an affair without your partner knowing?

Or what if sometime you visited a prostitute?

Or tell your friend that your boss is a jerk?

Or watch porn? Perhaps even kinky Japanese tentacle stuff.

Or write a comment against GOP / Obama in an internet forum.

Or discover you're gay at puberty and not announce your friends/parents until you decide the time is right?

Are you allowed to all these "secrets" (and tons more)? Why the fuck should anybody else, and especially the government, have this information on you?

Only a puritan society, that thinks all such stuff as "immoral" would see as OK to not be able to have secrects on such matters ("cheating on your partner? That's bad, and they should now it").

As for, "how the gov't is going to go fascist" -- who said it isn't already in certain aspects? Fascism is not a "take it all or leave it affair", you can pick and choose from it's practices. A basic characteristic of fascism was spying on their own citizens. And there are lots of others (e.g the ratio of incarceration and the militarization of police force is unprecedented in a regular Western democracy like France, Britain and co).

Re:Why was this secret? by blah32497 on Wednesday December 11, 2013 @08:58PM (#6892389)
Okay, I reread the article b/c I was starting to feel like I read something completely different.

At no point does the author mention the government and at no point does he mention making every aspect of your life public.

Seems like most of the people replying either didn't read the article and they just want to vent. There are legitimate reason to have secrets, and there are reasons that are stressors and actually serve no purpose.

Completely different topic:

"Be the change you want to see in the world"

I didn't think anyone actually believe that literally till now. You want everyone to picks and chooses what laws to abide by?

The reality is that punishment goes into the cost benefit analysis everyone does. For example: Say I believe I should have the right to hire a prostitute. Should I do it out of principle? How about if I don't want to risk going to jail? Is that not a valid reason?

In this case I'm okay with having my right infringed, because I realize that it's not just my world to live in, and we as a society agree on some rules - some of which I don't like.

Re:Why was this secret? by coldtea on Thursday December 12, 2013 @01:06AM (#6893052)
>At no point does the author mention the government and at no point does he mention making every aspect of your life public.

No, but others in this discussion did (mention both) -- a discussion is not constrained by exactly what served to start it, it explores other tangents. Especially in this case, it was inevitable that TFA's advice, while meant for personal use, also had to be considered in relation with the current privacy issues in general.

>"Be the change you want to see in the world" I didn't think anyone actually believe that literally till now. You want everyone to picks and chooses what laws to abide by?

No, I want everyone to fight against injustice and for his principles, instead of self-identifying as an "average Joe" (only concerned with his personal affairs).

>In this case I'm okay with having my right infringed, because I realize that it's not just my world to live in, and we as a society agree on some rules - some of which I don't like.

Perhaps, but there's still a huge part of life, involving perhaps 100% of the population, that's against some law or another. From a 19-yo drinking beer with his friends, to a guy ripping of a DVD using DeCSS, to Kerouac using his drugs and America getting a literary masterpiece out of it. And to millions of gays, for example, having sex besides sodomy being a crime back in the day ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy_laws_in_the_United_State... ).

What makes society tolerable is that not all those laws are (or can) be 100% enforced all the time. A total lack of privacy brings any of those "offenses" towards being discoverable and punishable, which is a dystopia in itself.

Re:Why was this secret? by jarrett on Thursday December 12, 2013 @10:45AM (#6895009)
"At no point does the author mention the government and at no point does he mention making every aspect of your life public." That's correct. I made the root post for this particular comment thread, and I consciously expanded the discussion to include broader questions of privacy. That's why I began by saying that the author's explicit claims were fine, but that I also noticed a possible subtext. We're not declaring the author wrong, because he never explicitly said the things with which we're now disagreeing. We're stating a position that some people hold, then disagreeing with that position.
Re:Why was this secret? by spagina09 on Thursday December 12, 2013 @01:38AM (#6893127)
I really don't understand the statement of more secrets than someone needs.

I bet your own mind isn't an open book, you have desires and wants, knowledge, aspirations, and things that belong solely to you. This isn't to be looked down upon, everything shouldn't be an open book for the world to read and judge upon and they should belong to you. That isn't unhealthy, it doesn't mark a lack of moral character, it's your own internal conversation, and frankly, more people need to learn how to work within themselves instead of making everything an open book for everyone else to judge and comment on like they are the Kardashians.

Re:Why was this secret? by job-dilemma on Wednesday December 11, 2013 @07:57PM (#6892072)
Well said, there may be legitimate reasons to keep secrets but secrets for their own sake are bullshit and make the world worse.
Re:Why was this secret? by steveklabnik on Wednesday December 11, 2013 @06:55PM (#6891805)
Re:Why was this secret? by memracom on Wednesday December 11, 2013 @07:04PM (#6891851)
Rumor has it that President Obama met with the dictator Raul Castro recently. If only there was a photo of that meeting, it would destroy his career!
Re:Why was this secret? by wonderzombie on Wednesday December 11, 2013 @06:51PM (#6891778)
If you don't have any of that to worry about -- no regrets, no past mistakes -- that's great for you. That might be why the thought of someone having access to your "secrets" seems so contrived.

But what about someone with mental health problems? Depression or anxiety? A past drug addiction, or merely alcoholism? A criminal record? How about something as "innocuous" as a drunken one night stand while in a committed relationship? Is it so difficult to imagine how, if widely known, these facts might impact someone's ability to hold down a job, or their relationship with their neighbors?

For other people who do have things they'd rather keep private, it's not just in their head-- it can have a wide variety of implications in your interactions with people & society if it becomes common knowledge. If nothing else people will look at you differently. And a lot of it has happened in the past and is unchangeable, and therefore unactionable in the present.

Re:Why was this secret? by matz1 on Wednesday December 11, 2013 @09:01PM (#6892401)
In an open society, I would expect society people view toward this issue will change as well. If everybody know my things and I know everybody things, hopefully stigma or negative impact an toward the issue mentioned will be less.
Re:Why was this secret? by dinkumthinkum on Wednesday December 11, 2013 @09:39PM (#6892511)
You've got to be kidding ... Sure, the world would be different if everyone was a computer that was written by you ... OK, fine, but what does that have to with anything?
Re:Why was this secret? by Ygg2 on Thursday December 12, 2013 @05:40AM (#6893765)
There can never be something such as truly open society, not in the foreseeable future.

As truth becomes the norm, the value of lies becomes greater. If you lie constantly your lies have less value, than if you tell truth but lie about important facts.

IMO Truly open society can only be established if faking a signal is impossible. Which I doubt it will ever be.

Re:Why was this secret? by matz1 on Thursday December 12, 2013 @06:29AM (#6893917)
Yeah not truly open society like you said but I imagine with the advancement of technology where information can be gathered easily by anyone, it will be close enough.
Re:Why was this secret? by Ygg2 on Thursday December 12, 2013 @07:59AM (#6894169)
I don't think gathering is a part. As long as you can easily fake it, it will not lead to "open society".
Re:Why was this secret? by ShirtlessRod on Thursday December 12, 2013 @05:36PM (#6897756)
"I would expect" "Hopefully"

Good enough for me!

Re:Why was this secret? by mistercow on Wednesday December 11, 2013 @06:34PM (#6891689)
You don't have to imagine contrived futures to see why privacy is important. You only need to look at the present, or even easier, the past. Rational people dominate neither governments nor society. Privacy and secrecy are the first line of defense that the oppressed have against prejudice.

As far as "enemies trying to ruin lives", it's wonderful that you are so privileged as to even be able to think of that as "contrived", but you would do well to pay attention to other people's situations.

Re:Why was this secret? by sivers on Wednesday December 11, 2013 @06:29PM (#6891673)
Thank you, blah32497. That's exactly what I was trying to say, and wonderfully succinctly put. :-)

It could also mean reevaluating what you've made public, and deciding what should be secret.

Re:Why was this secret? by gnaffle on Wednesday December 11, 2013 @07:42PM (#6892024)
I'd love for you to ask the person what she would think about you sharing her diary with everyone she knows (her family, her coworkers, her boss etc). Would it be equally meaningless and uninteresting to them?
Re:Why was this secret? by dreamfactory on Wednesday December 11, 2013 @07:32PM (#6891978)
Hats off re good promo and topicality - but I'd expect something a bit more broadly reflective and nuanced. Really don't think you've thought this one through. You seem to have taken a line for a walk and inadvertently reinvented the asinine 'nothing to hide' argument here. The whole thing about say, the Stasi, was that they were interested in all the everyday comings and goings, not the James Bond stuff. That's the depressingly mundane and terrifying reality of mass surveillance. That's why it was referred to as the 'boot in the face of humanity' by a smarter and better informed person than any of us.

> It could also mean reevaluating what you've made public, and deciding what should be secret.

aka chilling effect - surely you're not seriously advocating for it?

Re:Why was this secret? by woah on Wednesday December 11, 2013 @08:17PM (#6892169)
Could you please post your real name? If not, you are by definition a hypocrite in what you have just said.
Re:Why was this secret? by acqq on Thursday December 12, 2013 @03:36AM (#6893465)
And the address and the phone number too. And where you work. And where you spend the nights.
Re:Why was this secret? by heliostatic on Wednesday December 11, 2013 @06:39PM (#6891713)
The benefits of privacy go somewhat beyond what you've listed. As I often do in these conversations, I suggest starting with Daniel Solove's paper, "'I've Got Nothing to Hide,' And Other Misunderstandings of Privacy" link: http://tehlug.org/files/solove.pdf
Re:Why was this secret? by jiggy2011 on Wednesday December 11, 2013 @06:36PM (#6891693)
Except that some people really do have people who want to ruin their lives or at the very least a motive to use information against them.
Re:Why was this secret? by jarrett on Thursday December 12, 2013 @10:38AM (#6894963)
It's fine if it doesn't resonate with you, but that's evidently because your perspective is limited by your relatively good fortune.

"Dystopia" wouldn't seem so contrived to residents of East Germany under the Stasi. We're not speaking in hypotheticals. There is precedent for societies using the available technology to erode privacy as much as possible.

"Enemies trying to ruin lives" wouldn't seem so contrived to some people who've had abusive, stalker exes. Read about some of the things people do for personal vendettas. It may not have happened to you, but it probably happened to somebody you know.

"I think what the author is trying to say is that if you live an open life with few secrets, then your life will be less stressful." Until someone unexpectedly uses your personal information to materially harm your well-being. Then your life becomes much more stressful.

Re:Why was this secret? by Nursie on Thursday December 12, 2013 @06:26AM (#6893907)
And when you step out of line, or just step on the wrong toes, and someone decides to make your life miserable for some trivial reason, you've given them a whole arsenal to use against you.

You consider yourself part of the 'in' group. I follow all the rules, why would anyone bother me? And that works fine until one day it doesn't. The day that happens you'll get no help from the other people that think the way you do.

Re:Why was this secret? by 0xdeadbeefbabe on Wednesday December 11, 2013 @06:33PM (#6891686)
Yes, Dystopian future doesn't resonate with me either, but a Dystopian past would. I'm sure there's a scary example from history.
Re:Why was this secret? by gnaffle on Wednesday December 11, 2013 @08:05PM (#6892112)
There are many, Eastern Germany is perhaps the worst example where 1 in 6 people were at least part time informants.
Re:Why was this secret? by dinkumthinkum on Wednesday December 11, 2013 @09:35PM (#6892500)
Oh please. I call shenanigans on everyone promoting this view, including the OP. I find it hard to believe you are all special humans that have no things you wouldn't want other or particular people to know. It's like pretending a monk or something, it's sort of pretentious.
Re:Why was this secret? by aaronblohowiak on Wednesday December 11, 2013 @07:23PM (#6891937)
Learn more about life in East Germany.
Re:Why was this secret? by PavlovsCat on Thursday December 12, 2013 @12:07AM (#6892904)
> it's most likely all in your head.

It's one thing to never have been persecuted or discriminated against yourself, but it's not really excusable to be so completely unaware of your own privilege and sheltered life.

Re:Why was this secret? by matz1 on Wednesday December 11, 2013 @08:09PM (#6892134)
Yes open transparent society, this the future I'm looking forward to. I would no need to hide my credit card number, bank account, sexual quirk, etc, If anybody trying to abuse that, they will be easily tracked.
Re:Why was this secret? by spagina09 on Thursday December 12, 2013 @01:48AM (#6893157)
Keep private things private.

The world doesn't need to know your sexual quirks, or your bank balance, and you shouldn't feel the need to broadcast it.

People I interact with know I have a wife, they don't need to know her favorite lube or position. That is crude and unnecessary, and a society that expects that knowledge and welcomes it with open arms has a major root issue.

Re:Why was this secret? by matz1 on Thursday December 12, 2013 @06:21AM (#6893886)
In the world where information easily gathered I don't even need to hide these thing. If you know my favorite lube then whatever, I would know yours or other people too. These things would not be taboo or strange.
Re:Why was this secret? by neduma on Wednesday December 11, 2013 @09:04PM (#6892416)
>> when you sit down to think about it, it's most likely all in your head.

Nicely done.

Re:Why was this secret? by wonderzombie on Wednesday December 11, 2013 @06:53PM (#6891789)
See also www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik‎.
Re:Why was this secret? by B-Con on Wednesday December 11, 2013 @06:05PM (#6891535)
While searching for the Dilber strip IvyMike mentioned, I came across one relevant to your post: http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/1994-10-24/
Re:Why was this secret? by Toenex on Thursday December 12, 2013 @04:11AM (#6893564)
Now imagine a dystopian future when all such diaries are available to a privileged subset of society. Imagine the power that subset would hold, and all the ways it would likely be abused.

Surely that power comes not from the honesty of the words in the diary, but from the fear that those words become widely known. Do most people have something to hide that is so shameful, so damning? In many cases is secrecy a luxury we might quickly be happy not to have? Is this current need for privacy because society is less accepting of us as people? Perhaps our obsession with privacy is the problem, not the solution.

Re:Why was this secret? by jarrett on Thursday December 12, 2013 @10:51AM (#6895046)
"Do most people have something to hide that is so shameful, so damning?"

Have you ever complained to a friend or family member about your boss? Then the answer is yes.

Have you ever said something really embarrassingly politically incorrect? Then the answer is yes.

Have you ever possessed an illegal drug, including alcohol while underage? Then the answer is yes.

Re:Why was this secret? by Toenex on Thursday December 12, 2013 @03:49PM (#6897147)
That's your list?!