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Re:Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement by nikcub on Wednesday November 13, 2013 @09:52AM (#6725475)
The content isn't interesting[1] because bilateral free trade agreements are public[0], and having the USA force partners into accepting patent enforcement, copyright laws like the DMCA etc. are well known

What is a little interesting is the negotiations and diplomacy at work. You can see how each country is trying to further its own position and interest. Looking at this version of the document, it is impossible to see how a compromise will be reached since there are so many areas that are at complete opposite viewpoints - but you know that in a few weeks time an agreement will be announced as one side or another gives way (guess which!), and the public are nonethewiser.

Some are really good at watering things down, eg.

> The Parties shall endeavour to [US/SG propose: cooperate] [US oppose: establish a framework for cooperation] among their respective patent offices to facilitate

You can see already that they don't intend to cooperate. Establishing a framework? what the hell does that even mean ..

You can now see that Australia, Singapore and Mexico are on Team USA when it comes to copyright terms (Australia opposed it during the FTA negotiations), everybody else opposes, but they will eventually have to come around on this:

> [NZ/BN/MY/VN/CA/JP propose; US/AU/SG/MX oppose: The term of protection of a work, performance or phonogram shall be determined according to each Party's domestic law and the international agreements to which each Party is a party.]

[0] Here is USA - Australia: http://www.ustr.gov/trade-agreements/free-trade-agreements/a...

Here is NAFTA - https://www.nafta-sec-alena.org/Default.aspx?tabid=97&langua...

[1] It might not be interesting because we have seen a lot of this in completed deals previously, but it is very important. The USA enforces its business interest laws such as patent and copyright terms onto recipients of "free trade" agreements, in exchange for getting access to the non-protected part of their domestic market. This is why US laws are so important to the rest of the world, because we end up having to adopt them (this is what modern imperialism looks like).

Re:Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement by Camillo on Wednesday November 13, 2013 @12:09PM (#6726575)
> The content isn't interesting[1] because bilateral free trade agreements are public[0]

That's like saying that weather forecasts aren't interestings because the weather is public. The point is that we want to have a public discussion on these agreements before they are signed.

Re:Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement by sounds on Wednesday November 13, 2013 @05:33PM (#6729146)
So far I have seen no mention of Article QQ.G.10, on TPM.

"The US wants this separate cause of action to extend even to cases where there is no copyrighted works" [1]

Even the DMCA only protects copyrighted works. The provisions of QQ.G.10 for example would make it illegal in enough countries to distribute dvdcss that linux would not play my DVDs.

Once implemented, this will have a significant impact on linux users.

[1] http://keionline.org/node/1825

Re:Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement by wonderyak on Wednesday November 13, 2013 @01:24PM (#6727206)
My understanding is that the TPP is not public (yet?), and parties involved are not allowed to discuss it for 4 years.

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2013/11/house-pushing-back-on...

Re:Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement by mtgx on Wednesday November 13, 2013 @01:39PM (#6727332)
How is that possible, when there were rumors they intend to pass it by the end of the year?
Re:Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement by wonderyak on Wednesday November 13, 2013 @02:14PM (#6727609)
Re:Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement by brianpgordon on Wednesday November 13, 2013 @02:53PM (#6727983)
Why would Congress pass legislation saying that it's not allowed to amend trade agreements? Why don't they just not amend trade agreements?
Re:Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement by vidarh on Wednesday November 13, 2013 @06:23PM (#6729385)
Because it makes it very easy for individual members to hold their hands up and say "there was nothing I could do" about things they would like to pass but know might prove unpopular. And it minimizes the window for the public to mobilize opposition.
Re:Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement by saraid216 on Wednesday November 13, 2013 @04:07PM (#6728520)
We're talking about the several-hundred-member body of people whose very job is to argue with each other? The one whose membership is up for modification every few years? The one whose purpose it is to create rules that persist across changes in membership?

That Congress?

Re:Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement by brianpgordon on Wednesday November 13, 2013 @06:12PM (#6729329)
But the new Congress can just as easily pass legislation to invalidate the previous legislation.
Re:Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement by saraid216 on Wednesday November 13, 2013 @06:50PM (#6729487)
Yes, just like judicial precedent doesn't exist whatsoever because any judge can overturn any decision when given the opportunity.

Also, we rewrite the Constitution because Amendments allow us to. It's just that we do it so fast and then change it back that you don't even notice.

Re:Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement by patmcc on Wednesday November 13, 2013 @04:48PM (#6728822)
Congress now != congress in 2 years, remember.
Re:Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement by rev_null on Wednesday November 13, 2013 @08:27PM (#6729931)
Yes, Congress now is only ~90% of what congress will be in 2 years.
Re:Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement by wonderyak on Wednesday November 13, 2013 @03:11PM (#6728121)
its hard for me to think of an answer to this question that doesn't somehow devolve into an area of 'conspiracy'-type BS.

I really do not know.

Re:Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement by kelvin0 on Wednesday November 13, 2013 @05:02PM (#6728931)
Why are alternatives to the current mainstream stories have to be 'devolving' into anything?
Re:Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement by wonderyak on Wednesday November 13, 2013 @06:11PM (#6729325)
In this situation its probably a matter of 'don't attribute to malice what you can attribute to stupidity'?

OTOH - the mainstream media is not reporting on this at all. Doing a search for 'trans pacific partnership' on CNN - the first result is a story about the G-20 Summit on Jul. 15th.

The more you look at, investigate and try and understand this story the crazier you may seem to other people.

Re:Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement by pasbesoin on Wednesday November 13, 2013 @03:09PM (#6728103)
Has no one been paying attention? This has been fairly widely reported in the press I follow. Of course, in the "mainstream" press, nada on this point.

This is a model that the Administration (Obama, and Bush before him) have been following for several recent trade agreements. They are being negotiated in a very selective and biased secrecy.

In the U.S.:

- Favored lobbyists have fairly unfettered access. From one account, I understand that they can sign on to a site from their own computer and view the whole shebang -- I don't have this specifically confirmed, but the thorough access has been repeatedly confirmed. They attend and undoubtedly influence the negotiations; in fact, there have been strong hints that they are directly writing major portions of these agreements.

- Your own Congressman -- Senator or Representative -- can only access the agreement by appointment to go to a specific, physical room in D.C. where they can view it. They can't bring their staff for consultation and research. They can't take the draft agreement or portions thereof away with them.

- The public -- as opposed to favored, moneyed private interests within said public -- has no access to the draft agreement nor any substantive part of the negotiations. In fact, at at least one point, public access was specifically qualified as a "national security risk". For a trade agreement that will, once passed, then be public and under which we must all live.

Regarding that last point: Substantial arguments have been made that these agreements are being used to essentially legislate while making an end run around the legislative process. They contain language stating that individual countries' laws must be "harmonized" to the terms of the agreement. In effect, you have this trade agreement dictating the country's law.

And in the U.S., our legislators have repeated agreed to "fast track" the approval. Essentially handing over to the Executive, in the form of the Administration and its appointed trade negotiators, the power to enact the trade agreement and thereby the "harmonizing" language (i.e. commitment to change law, i.e. "create" law). And this additionally ahead of the drafting, agreement to and codification of the specific terms and language that will be enacted.

In essence, the Legislative branch has (illegally, many argue) abrogated its duty and responsibility to draft, negotiate, and enact law, to the Executive.

Amazing, how... "compliant" they suddenly get, when there's real money involved for them. And how conveniently they sweep all this up, including the avoidance of the need to specifically, individually go "on the record" e.g. with a vote, under this abused rubric of a "trade agreement".

Re:Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement by wonderyak on Wednesday November 13, 2013 @03:14PM (#6728139)
Not only do the lobbyists and partners get to influence the negotiations, they are under a 4 year gag order from discussing it.
Re:Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement by mwilcox on Wednesday November 13, 2013 @06:38PM (#6729437)
An earlier version was leaked in 2011.
Re:Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement by rtpg on Wednesday November 13, 2013 @01:31PM (#6727258)
> [NZ/BN/MY/VN/CA/JP propose; US/AU/SG/MX oppose: The term of protection of a work, performance or phonogram shall be determined according to each Party's domestic law and the international agreements to which each Party is a party.]

On a sidenote, wouldn't it be great if we could at least get unified copyright law? From the draft it seems like the US is pushing more towards that

Re:Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement by wonderyak on Wednesday November 13, 2013 @02:39PM (#6727845)
Not when its coupled with things like Corporations being able to sue governments for 'loss of potential future profits' for policy decisions. That is incredibly dangerous.
Re:Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement by rodgerd on Wednesday November 13, 2013 @01:41PM (#6727349)
Not on US terms, it wouldn't be.
Re:Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement by spunky on Wednesday November 13, 2013 @02:17PM (#6727638)
The US copyright system is broken.
Re:Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement by einehexe on Wednesday November 13, 2013 @01:23PM (#6727195)
>this is what modern imperialism looks like

Well that is a pretty tepid imperialism. If a country isn't willing to put their money where their mouth is then maybe they should be quiet.

Re:Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement by x3ro on Wednesday November 13, 2013 @05:26PM (#6729101)