News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Bill Gates: My Plan to Improve Our World, and How You Can... by austinz on Tuesday November 12, 2013 @12:28PM (#6719203)
I think it's more humane to improve sustainability by lowering birth rates, rather than letting existing people starve to death/die of sickness en masse. You argue that improving people's lives is only postponing the inevitable. I disagree, because the things Gates wants to do can facilitate economic development and provide a natural check on population growth.

As countries grow richer birthrates tend to trend downwards, for a variety of reasons. The one country that actually took population growth seriously and tried doing something about it (China) continues to get shit over its policies today (sometimes for good reason). Just providing people in developing countries with access to contraception ignores many of the reasons that people in those countries choose to have large families.

Finally, I've read that UCSD guy's blog, and while I respect his expertise, I can't get over the fact that his analysis often seems to rest upon rather shaky assumptions. For example, one of the blog posts he links to ("Galactic-Scale Energy") argues that exponential growth means that even a modest ~2% growth rate, sustained into the far future, would result in humanity needing to consume ludicrous amounts of energy. The math is sound, but the assumption is that the human population will also continue increasing exponentially (e.g. 1%), meaning that economic output continues to be divided among the current populace at a rate that is not necessarily exponential. However, if population growth really is slowing down (as statistics show [0]), then 2% growth into the far future with a constant or slowly increasing population results in a ludicrous amount of economic output available on a per-capita basis. The author's point is that unchecked growth is a bad thing; I don't think unchecked economic growth is even meaningful in the context of a population that is no longer increasing. Many of his other posts contain similar 'spherical cow' assumptions meant to make his mathematical models more appealing in terms of presenting his overall message.

[0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:World_population_growth_ra..., data from US Census Bureau.

Re:Bill Gates: My Plan to Improve Our World, and How You Can... by collyw on Tuesday November 12, 2013 @03:37PM (#6720822)
Lower birth rates is one thing, but lets sort out the fucking inequality first. People have more children in Africa, because they expect to loose some and because they will help out (be economically active). Both those could be solved by better distribution of wealth, an an accompanying does of education.

A child born in the west will consume vast amounts more resources than multiple children born in poverty.

Re:Bill Gates: My Plan to Improve Our World, and How You Can... by specialist on Tuesday November 12, 2013 @07:30PM (#6722491)
Addressing inequity is precisely the strategy to reducing population growth.

Empowering women, with education, economic freedom, and reproductive choice, is the Correct Answer.

Fortunately, much progress has been made and will continue.

Re:Bill Gates: My Plan to Improve Our World, and How You Can... by novalis78 on Tuesday November 12, 2013 @02:19PM (#6720190)
Why does everybody want to lower birthrates? We need to settle the solar system, not wait until the next ice age or meteor mass extinction in an "environmentally friendly" mode of existance...
Re:Bill Gates: My Plan to Improve Our World, and How You Can... by Houshalter on Thursday November 14, 2013 @05:24AM (#6731599)
At exponential growth even that isn't an option. There were about 1 billion people on Earth in 1900. By 2000 there were about 6 billion. If the population grows 6 times every century then do the math:

36 billion by the end of the century. You would have to convert all the land on Earth to farms and you still wouldn't be able to feed this many people.

216 billion by 2200 Which is almost four times as many as we could support if every planet in the solar system supported the same amount of people Earth does now.

1296 by 2300 An absurdly large number of people. You need to start expanding to other solar systems if you haven't already because this one is running out of resources. Transporting billions of people interstellar distances would take a ton of energy also.

362,797,056 billion (363 quadrillion) by the year 3000 We are running out of planets in the milky way to house them all.

2.19×10^25 by the year 4000

1.33×10^33 by 5000 We are out of planets in the universe to house them all.

8.02^40 by 6000 Now we are running out of atoms to make more humans.

And this is only 4,000 years, not even the amount of time civilization has been around. Not even a tiny fraction of the length of time humans have been around. Barely a blink of the eye for the age of the Earth, let alone the universe.

Exponential growth is a serious force.

Re:Bill Gates: My Plan to Improve Our World, and How You Can... by robotomir on Tuesday November 12, 2013 @07:07PM (#6722387)
It is naive and stupid to believe we will ever be able to export excessive population to Earth orbit and beyond.

It is naive and stupid to state that overpopulation increases the chances of a species' survival.

Re:Bill Gates: My Plan to Improve Our World, and How You Can... by rsheridan6 on Wednesday November 13, 2013 @12:17AM (#6723504)
That's not going to solve overpopulation problems here, because it would be cheaper to feed someone for life (ie it would require less energy) than it would be to send that person outside of Earth's gravitational field.
Re:Bill Gates: My Plan to Improve Our World, and How You Can... by pdonis on Wednesday November 13, 2013 @01:00AM (#6723637)
it would be cheaper to feed someone for life (ie it would require less energy) than it would be to send that person outside of Earth's gravitational field.

Please show your work.

Re:Bill Gates: My Plan to Improve Our World, and How You Can... by rsheridan6 on Wednesday November 13, 2013 @02:02AM (#6723816)
There was an error in my calculations, which are based on freshman college physics I took in the 90s, so never mind.

Attempt #2: Gravitational potential energy = kinetic energy = .5massescape velocity^2. = .5human bodyweight kg 11,200 m/s. Convert the units and you've got a few years worth of calories (which I think I mixed up with kilocalories the first time).

Re:Bill Gates: My Plan to Improve Our World, and How You Can... by pdonis on Wednesday November 13, 2013 @11:26PM (#6730507)
Yes, I get a few year's worth of kilocalories (1 kcal = 4180 Joules, and assuming a 2,000 kcal per day diet) for a 100 kg human.
Re:Bill Gates: My Plan to Improve Our World, and How You Can... by maxerickson on Tuesday November 12, 2013 @02:45PM (#6720410)
How many billions of people do you think we need to solve the rocket problem?
Re:Bill Gates: My Plan to Improve Our World, and How You Can... by novalis78 on Tuesday November 12, 2013 @04:45PM (#6721422)
It will add to the pressure of directing larger percentage of GDP or indirectly, serve as incentive for companies to make profit, to solve this problem. I am more concerned about a high birthrate in countries with religious fanaticism and lack of education than a high birthrate in general. Colonizing Mars and the Asteroid Belt will need billions of people more.
Re:Bill Gates: My Plan to Improve Our World, and How You Can... by xradionut on Tuesday November 12, 2013 @02:48PM (#6720430)
Outer space is very expensive and extremely hard to do right and safely.
Re:Bill Gates: My Plan to Improve Our World, and How You Can... by brianobush on Tuesday November 12, 2013 @03:07PM (#6720572)
Yes, it is currently. However, we need to innovate to change that and I believe we can!