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Re:Zurb Ink: Responsive HTML Email Framework by splatzone on Thursday November 07, 2013 @06:46PM (#6693368)
Lovely framework, but can someone explain why HTML email is so stuck in the past?

Why can't email clients just abide by proper web standards?

Re:Zurb Ink: Responsive HTML Email Framework by dmix on Thursday November 07, 2013 @06:50PM (#6693404)
I prefer succinct plain-textish emails linking to HTML websites over HTML-heavy emails in most situations.

I've personally found plain-text often also converts better than most HTML-heavy newsletters.

Most HTML is pigeonholed into email where it doesn't fit well, for example the variety of unpredictable clients and devices. I'd rather serve that via the browser where full CSS/HTML is supported.

Mobile is helping by standardizing webkit but we're still far from it being a good delivery mechanism for a web experience.

Re:Zurb Ink: Responsive HTML Email Framework by splatzone on Thursday November 07, 2013 @06:56PM (#6693422)
I feel the same way about plain text, but I can't help but wonder if I'm part of a nerdy minority. I know my mum finds her image heavy emails from eBay useful, for instance.
Re:Zurb Ink: Responsive HTML Email Framework by biftek on Thursday November 07, 2013 @07:22PM (#6693554)
We’ve seen similar results at our company. Plain text emails always get more click throughs in A/B tests.

And personally I prefer them. If I must use html, I only stick to the basic styling elements with no css.

Re:Zurb Ink: Responsive HTML Email Framework by dntrkv on Thursday November 07, 2013 @07:07PM (#6693472)
I think it was around Outlook 2007 Microsoft decided that instead of using Internet Explorer to render their emails, they would use Microsoft Word. That's right. Word. And now whenever you try to use even the most basic CSS rules, Outlook fucks it up very badly. Then there is that abomination called Lotus Notes (mainly <8.5). Yes, I have been doing a lot of emails lately and it is the worst experience in web dev I have ever had.

Outlook 2007 makes IE6 look like the best browser in the world.

Re:Zurb Ink: Responsive HTML Email Framework by eli on Thursday November 07, 2013 @08:51PM (#6693943)
You left out the most amazing part: they doubled down on the MS Word rendering engine in Office 2013. At one point there was a letter writing campaign to ask them to change their mind.
Re:Zurb Ink: Responsive HTML Email Framework by netghost on Friday November 08, 2013 @01:00AM (#6694696)
Unfortunately the template they used in the email failed to render on outlook...
Re:Zurb Ink: Responsive HTML Email Framework by ryanSrich on Thursday November 07, 2013 @09:56PM (#6694145)
<!-- [!mso] -->

That little comment is a life saver.

I've noticed that Outlook, particularly 2007+, will play nicely with CSS so long as your styles are only applied to table elements. Put some padding on a 'p' tag and you won't see anything happen.

Likewise mobile gmail on a phone browser will not render a responsive email. Not sure if ZURB has given that any attention or if they intended to focus on the rendering of native clients.

Re:Zurb Ink: Responsive HTML Email Framework by porker on Friday November 08, 2013 @03:31AM (#6695159)
AFAIK there's no work-around for mobile GMail on a phone. I've been banging my head against it this week. Given up for now and left native Android/iOS mail app users having the better experience.
Re:Zurb Ink: Responsive HTML Email Framework by elm232 on Friday November 08, 2013 @05:14PM (#6699495)
Check out Ink's block-grid (http://zurb.com/ink/docs.php#block-grid). It's a lifesaver for working with Gmail mobile. Alternatively, if you don't need Outlook support, ZURB's original responsive templates support Gmail mobile quite well (http://zurb.com/playground/responsive-email-templates).
Re:Zurb Ink: Responsive HTML Email Framework by splatzone on Thursday November 07, 2013 @07:14PM (#6693514)
Thank you for the explanation, that's insane.
Re:Zurb Ink: Responsive HTML Email Framework by dntrkv on Thursday November 07, 2013 @07:33PM (#6693603)
It is very insane. You would think that after getting such a bad rep with IE that they would make sure they don't get themselves into that kind of situation again, but no. They keep releasing shitty software that holds the rest of the industry back. I never was a Microsoft hater, but in the past few weeks of writing HTML/CSS (if you can call it that) for Outlook support, I have cursed Outlook more than any other piece of software I can remember.

You can read more about it here: http://www.email-standards.org/blog/entry/microsoft-to-ignor...

Re:Zurb Ink: Responsive HTML Email Framework by cookingrobot on Thursday November 07, 2013 @07:48PM (#6693667)
I believe the motivation was that most Outlook users were at corporations who sent/received most of their emails from coworkers who also used Outlook.

What these users really wanted was the ability to edit and format their emails the same way they did in Word. Word really is a fantastic document editor/formatter, and I don't know of any html doc editor that comes close to the flexibility, ease, and power of Word.

So they traded standards for what people really wanted - email that they could format.

Re:Zurb Ink: Responsive HTML Email Framework by andybak on Thursday November 07, 2013 @07:23PM (#6693562)
If I recall correctly - they did it for security reasons. i.e. Internet Explorer was so full of holes they thought the Word HTML rendered would be easier to keep secure.

In the sense that it did a lot less and thus presented a smaller attack surface, they were right.

Re:Zurb Ink: Responsive HTML Email Framework by niteshade on Thursday November 07, 2013 @07:39PM (#6693630)
Guess its a pity Microsoft never heard about sandboxing, eh?
Re:Zurb Ink: Responsive HTML Email Framework by mkelly275 on Thursday November 07, 2013 @10:46PM (#6694311)
The really crazy one is Gmail. It does not support media queries and requires you to inline all your styles. You would expect so much more from Google.
Re:Zurb Ink: Responsive HTML Email Framework by ye on Thursday November 07, 2013 @08:21PM (#6693808)
Because security and privacy.

There's a very good reason why your email client doesn't display images by default.

Imagine every major email client allowed using HTML5/CSS3.

One day somebody discovers a bug that allows you to execute random code. Now all you need to deliver a trojan to millions of people is mass-email it.

Re:Zurb Ink: Responsive HTML Email Framework by airencracken on Thursday November 07, 2013 @10:25PM (#6694230)
Nope apparently all that matters is shiny. The short nearsightedness of some of these comments is amazing.

Kudos to be reasonable.