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Re:Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B by timr on Wednesday June 10, 2009 @12:17AM (#650564)
I'm that "geezer". Coded in C and C++ for over a decade, and now I'm working in the magical world of Rails, where I get to watch 20-somethings rediscover the value of old ideas the hard way. (Given the average comment thread on Hacker News, and you'd be excused for wondering why anyone ever used compiled languages or static typing. Silly dinosaurs!)

That said, while I appreciate your sentiment, I know in my heart that the author is right. All of my friends from college have moved out of programming. Many have left the industry completely -- and we're not even that old! The bottom line is that there's little or no cost advantage to hiring an older coder, when I have t-shirts that are older than the most popular development environments.

Every once in a while, some young geek chimes into these conversations with the observation that one needs only "keep up with technology" to stay relevant in the industry. But even ignoring the fact that "keeping up" is usually easier said than done, the economics just don't work out. My friends who went to medical school are finishing their residencies and starting in private practice; my friends who went to law school are making partner. In most industries, you're just beginning your career when you're in your early 30s. In software, you're already old enough to be a conversation topic.

Re:Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B by johnyzee on Wednesday June 10, 2009 @03:55AM (#650717)
Rightly or wrongly, the impression people get from a a 40+ programmer is that it is odd for him to still be doing this job and subconsciously he comes across as unsuccessful because he hasn't 'moved up the ladder'. I think this is the major impediment career wise for the older crowd.

It is like being overqualified for a job: You have all the skills needed yet your motivation and personality is questioned.

I realize that good companies recognize talent, and that überhackers with brand name projects behind them will always be in demand, but sadly the world is made up of different realities.

Re:Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B by menloparkbum on Wednesday June 10, 2009 @01:28AM (#650624)
That said, while I appreciate your sentiment, I know in my heart that the author is right.

Even the "keep up with technology" people know in their hearts that these articles are correct. Everyone knows programmers have a half-life, they just are in disagreement about when it kicks in. Nearly everyone would be surprised to discover a 60 year old programmer who was still gainfully employed. 50 is really pushing it, 40 is pushing it, and 35 is starting to push it. In contrast, nobody would think it was weird to see a 40, 50 or even 60 year old doctor or lawyer.

Re:Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B by netsp on Wednesday June 10, 2009 @03:50AM (#650714)
It's a bit early for these comments. There aren't that many programmers in their 50s because there wasn't as much need for programmers in their twenties, 30 years ago. Demand for doctors has been more steady.

That's half the story, but it's a big part of it.

The other half is that it's an area with gradual drift out & little drift in.

That half needs some explaining but it seems like more of a young man's game then it is. It's easy to get behind. If you're out for 2 years, it's daunting to get back in. The opposite is true for some domain (like medicine). You get very little drift in to the field (more programmers become HR people or sales people then the other way around). It's a first career, not a second.

Re:Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B by gaius on Wednesday June 10, 2009 @08:01AM (#650849)
It depends. You could be out of Unix or C or Oracle for 2 years and come back. It's only "front-end" technologies like Flash, Rails, PHP, AJAX that suffer from the rapid churn and the latest thing when you come back didn't even exist when you left.
Re:Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B by netsp on Wednesday June 10, 2009 @08:17AM (#650870)
I wouldn't really know personally, but my reasoning was that not only technology moves, you forget or lose the feel.
Re:Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B by wglb on Wednesday June 10, 2009 @02:42AM (#650674)
Raising my hand. Been programming for 43 years, still going strong. Hopefully, I am done with C++, but who can tell.
Re:Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B by eru on Wednesday June 10, 2009 @10:13AM (#651021)
My grandfather was programming for a similar length of time before he retired. He made his last money maintaining mainframe assembler and Cobol programs, though. (He jokingly described himself as a classical philologist for computer languages.)
Re:Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B by wglb on Wednesday June 10, 2009 @11:31AM (#651135)
I remember job ads looking for mainframe programmers of many stripes to maintain vintage systems, as many cobol and assembly and jcl professionals had retired. There is still a lot of it out there.
Re:Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B by tdavis on Wednesday June 10, 2009 @01:41AM (#650634)
I can't completely buy it, only because I'm sure there are still companies or projects out there who need somebody with a decade's worth of low-level programming experience. Okay, maybe you can't make tons of money doing Rails CRUD apps because a trained seal could do that, but a trained seal couldn't write complicated C++ code.

My point, I suppose, is that your experience must still count for something within certain domains. Right? Or am I wrong on that, too?

Re:Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B by timr on Wednesday June 10, 2009 @03:29AM (#650698)
Sure, depth of experience counts for something. The problem is that the deeper you go, the less of an ecosystem there is to support you.
Re:Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B by HeyLaughingBoy on Wednesday June 10, 2009 @02:24PM (#651484)
Damn straight! The outfit I work for builds medical instrumentation and you can bet your butt that experience counts a huge amount. It's also getting harder to find people with recent C++ development on their resume.

I think you'll find that in industries where safety & reliability is critical, experience is always a great benefit for the applicant.

Re:Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B by dood on Wednesday June 10, 2009 @05:53AM (#650775)
My friends who went to medical school are finishing their residencies and starting in private practice; my friends who went to law school are making partner. In most industries, you're just beginning your career when you're in your early 30s

I wonder how much this is to do with the relative newness of programming as a profession. Medicine and law have had a very long time to develop systems to train the young, then identify and reward the knowledgable and talented. Perhaps in a few decades 20-something and 30-something programmers will be regarded in much the same way as their law and medicine practising counterparts.

Re:Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B by silentbicycle on Wednesday June 10, 2009 @07:11AM (#650812)
"How long will people continue believing in the myth of the 15-year-old hacker genius while simultaneously decrying the unreliability of software before the cognitive dissonance finally cracks?" -Dave Herman (http://calculist.blogspot.com/2005/12/12-weeks-with-geeks.ht...)

Also, programmers who have been working for >30 years (who started before the mid-late 70s) didn't have the option of learning to program at home, on a PC. PCs caused the number of new, but not potentially good, programmers entering the job market to spike.

Re:Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B by zkz on Wednesday June 10, 2009 @01:08AM (#650606)
The key is to make the algorithms and mathematics, not the languages, your tools. Some things never change.
Re:Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B by timr on Wednesday June 10, 2009 @03:19AM (#650689)
The key is to get someone to pay you in proportion to the cost of obtaining that knowledge.
Re:Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B by aswanson on Wednesday June 10, 2009 @10:03AM (#651003)
Bingo. I remember being an undergrad watching all the other majors play frisbee while we suffered. "That's ok", I remember thinking "this has to pay off. I mean, why else would we be doing this and not enjoying life? Wait until we graduate, then we'll see whos living it up!"

A dot com crash and several cube jobs later, those same folk are living in better homes and driving luxury suvs while I am pondering how I can escape the hell that is a modern day software cubicle job....Guess the joke really is on us.