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Re:Russia to monitor 'all communications' at Winter Olympics... by frank_boyd on Sunday October 06, 2013 @11:11AM (#6504289)
If our "democracies" were sane, we'd cancel or at least boycott these games.

And there lies the problem now:

Since the US together with the EU have become too corrupt, there is no one left to guard the moral high ground. The conclusion would be that this misery is now the new standard - unless we begin to act.

Re:Russia to monitor 'all communications' at Winter Olympics... by malandrew on Sunday October 06, 2013 @12:31PM (#6504522)
I would love it if the Olympic team issued a statement like so:

"Upon hearing of the Orwellian-like surveillance at the Olympic games in Russia, the US team has decided to boycott the games. However, we are not boycotting the games because of Russia's surveillance plans, but because several major world governments now consider ubiquitous surveillance acceptable in free and open societies, with out own government, the US government, leading the way. We will cease our boycott when the US government sets a moral and ethical example for the Russian government to cease its plans by canceling its dragnet surveillance programs of both US citizens and our brothers and sisters from around the world. We are asking our brothers and sisters in competition from Russia, China, England and any other country guilty of mass surveillance to join us in this effort. If this demonstration ends any significance of the Olympic games this year and into the indefinite future it will have been because our collective governments no longer should good faith towards the people of this World, and we will no longer see a reason to continue to compete atheletically on their behalf."

Re:Russia to monitor 'all communications' at Winter Olympics... by ktd on Sunday October 06, 2013 @03:11PM (#6505064)
To be honest if you think there is any chance at all that this would happen you are completely disconnected from reality.

The average person doesn't care about NSA surveillance-- just as the average person didn't care about Lincoln arresting newspaper editors and suspending habeas corpus, FDR putting Japanese-Americans in concentration camps, J. Edgar Hoover sending agents to spy on and harass suspected communists (or just people he didn't like), George W. Bush locking up terrorists in Guantanamo, etc.

When you get right down to it, historical precedent strongly indicates that the average person does not care whether the government actually respects the law in its pursuit of national security.

Re:Russia to monitor 'all communications' at Winter Olympics... by malandrew on Monday October 07, 2013 @11:43AM (#6508955)
Never said it would actually happen. Just said I would love it if it did.
Re:Russia to monitor 'all communications' at Winter Olympics... by rainsford on Sunday October 06, 2013 @11:53AM (#6504414)
I hate to phrase it this way, but the moral high ground would seem to be a relative place. The revelation that everyone spies doesn't necessarily mean that everyone spies in the same way or for the same reason. The motivation in particular seems important when talking about the moral high ground. While I'm sure there is overlap between spying motivations of China, Russia and western democracies (most large countries have similar interests in what other large countries are doing), there are also reasons China and Russia spy that are not shared by the US or the EU. There is little to suggest that the US or EU are using spying to suppress political dissent, for example. And the differences in the laws governing spying in the US and Russia seem unlikely to be "subtle" ones, the claim made in the article aside.
Re:Russia to monitor 'all communications' at Winter Olympics... by vidarh on Sunday October 06, 2013 @12:31PM (#6504519)
Oh, please. The US has a well documented history of spying on and infiltrating political organizations domestically and internationally ranging back to the labor movement of the mid 1800's (at least) and up to modern day, as well as suppressing dissent with methods ranging from assassinations and economic destabilization to assisting coups d'etat and invasions. Why should we believe that has stopped?

I don't know about the extent of spying to deal with political dissent in the EU, but I know quite a few people who were subjected to rather intense illegal surveillance in Norway, that was often clearly intended to intimidate (when top level people in the security services start conversations with you on the street about the argument you had with your wife, in your living room, the other night, it is pretty clear what the purpose is). When this monitoring was rolled up, it eventually was revealed that the leader of the parliamentary commission investigating the illegal surveillance had been put under illegal surveillance while he was investigating the illegal surveillance...

Given that this level of surveillance was happening in Norway relatively recently, I find it highly improbably that there's no extensive politically motivated spying in other European countries too, to this day, whether legal or illegal.

There is difference - sure. It is not politically acceptable to be seen to interfere with political parties at home in Europe or the US, so there may be less blatant interference these days, other than with fringe groups that are easier to find ways to label that makes them tolerable targets.

Re:Russia to monitor 'all communications' at Winter Olympics... by anon1385 on Sunday October 06, 2013 @01:25PM (#6504679)
>I don't know about the extent of spying to deal with political dissent in the EU

Some links from recent UK cases to get you started:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/aug/12/met-chief-bri...

Steven Lawrence was a black teenager murdered in a racially motived attack in 1993. The racist police force bungled the investigation. This was a big scandal and there was eventually a public inquiry. Recently it has emerged that the police used undercover police officers to infiltrate and undermine the campaign by the family to get justice and expose the racism in the police force. The police neglected to mention this during the public enquiry.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/jun/24/undercover-officer...

Over the course of several decades dozens of under cover police officers stole the identities of dead children and infiltrated environmental protest groups and were encouraged to enter into sexual relationships with women in the groups they were targeting. In some cases even fathering children with the women they were deceiving. All while still being married in their real lives, which they returned to once the assignments ended.

Re:Russia to monitor 'all communications' at Winter Olympics... by rtpg on Sunday October 06, 2013 @01:00PM (#6504617)
Europe is not a homogeneous ball within which everyone acts the same.
Re:Russia to monitor 'all communications' at Winter Olympics... by kushti on Sunday October 06, 2013 @11:40AM (#6504379)
It would be pretty cynical to boycot Olympic games, not US government as world's biggest voyeur
Re:Russia to monitor 'all communications' at Winter Olympics... by Zigurd on Sunday October 06, 2013 @11:51AM (#6504410)
It's completely different when Putin does it. Right?
Re:Russia to monitor 'all communications' at Winter Olympics... by rtpg on Sunday October 06, 2013 @12:58PM (#6504609)
As little faith I have in the FISC to hit back as much as it should, I still trust it more than Putin's kangaroo courts. So no, it's not the same.

Rule of law is still a thing that exists, and courts play a part of it.

Re:Russia to monitor 'all communications' at Winter Olympics... by generj on Sunday October 06, 2013 @11:17AM (#6504310)
I don't know - our escalating tensions with Russia - not to mention our recent diplomatic defeat with Syria (causing Russia to come out smelling like roses) - might cause the US to abortively try some limited action. Of course, Putin will rightfully call us out on our hypocrisy, and that will be that.

Ultimately the IOCC should do a better job of picking host countries in the first place, but they are more hopelessly corrupt than almost any other organization in the world.

Re:Russia to monitor 'all communications' at Winter Olympics... by tomjen3 on Sunday October 06, 2013 @11:26AM (#6504336)
Actually I don't see how Russia won that one. As far as I am concerned, the weapons would still have been there if the US hadn't threatened war.
Re:Russia to monitor 'all communications' at Winter Olympics... by generj on Sunday October 06, 2013 @12:11PM (#6504458)
It's a matter of international and domestic perception, not actual reality.

Internationally Putin is seen as having struck a blow against American imperialism. It's clear Obama wasn't anticipating Russia to helpfully offer a way out of his "red line".

Re:Russia to monitor 'all communications' at Winter Olympics... by afterburner on Sunday October 06, 2013 @01:06PM (#6504627)
But they did, and it's what Obama and the American people wanted (stay out of Syria, nullify their chemical weapons), so how is that a diplomatic defeat when the US President and people get exactly what they wanted? And simultaneously with Iran warming relations with the US even.

Perhaps you were hoping for the US to totally and completely control the entire process, and be able to take all credit? Seems a little greedy in the context of a diplomatic negotiation.

Re:Russia to monitor 'all communications' at Winter Olympics... by znowi on Sunday October 06, 2013 @11:30AM (#6504352)
I may be missing something, but why would one boycott the Sochi Olympics?
Re:Russia to monitor 'all communications' at Winter Olympics... by frank_boyd on Sunday October 06, 2013 @11:37AM (#6504371)
Mass surveillance destroys democracies - it's just a matter of time.

It is not part of the mission of the Olympic Games to destroy democracies.

Re:Russia to monitor 'all communications' at Winter Olympics... by rimantas on Sunday October 06, 2013 @11:43AM (#6504386)
So, having in mind NSA spying programme what should we also boycott?
Re:Russia to monitor 'all communications' at Winter Olympics... by frank_boyd on Sunday October 06, 2013 @12:34PM (#6504531)
Re:Russia to monitor 'all communications' at Winter Olympics... by vmiroshnikov on Sunday October 06, 2013 @01:01PM (#6504619)
Re:Russia to monitor 'all communications' at Winter Olympics... by frank_boyd on Sunday October 06, 2013 @01:22PM (#6504673)
Not as a remedy, but as a critical and most of all mandatory piece of the puzzle.
Re:Russia to monitor 'all communications' at Winter Olympics... by pekk on Sunday October 06, 2013 @12:24PM (#6504498)
I don't like this monitoring at this event, but it seems irrational to suggest that it will destroy one or more democracies.
Re:Russia to monitor 'all communications' at Winter Olympics... by frank_boyd on Sunday October 06, 2013 @01:02PM (#6504622)
Democracy fundamentally relies on freedom of expression: being able to discuss problems, to organize protests, to resolve issues (like corrupt politicians).

If you conduct mass surveillance (as does the NSA, the brits and apparently many others too), then people will refrain from expressing themselves freely, out of fear of blowback. Problems will not be discussed anymore, solutions will not be proposed and corruption will flourish. That's the end of democracy.

Usually, schools teach these basics.

Re:Russia to monitor 'all communications' at Winter Olympics... by camus on Sunday October 06, 2013 @11:40AM (#6504380)
Nazi germany got the Olympic Games , definetly not their concern.
Re:Russia to monitor 'all communications' at Winter Olympics... by archangel_one on Sunday October 06, 2013 @12:02PM (#6504433)
Actually, not really. Germany was awarded the '36 Games in 1931 which is before the Nazis came to power. And even in '36 it wouldn't have been so obvious exactly how bad the Nazis were going to turn out to be. Much easier to say in hindsight.