Exactly. He's comparing php to a framework. PHP isn't a framework. If he tried to write code in python or ruby without a framework or template engine, he'd have the same complaint. If he tried php with a framework or template system, he'd realize its not all that different. I just rewrote a Django app in php with very tiny modifications to the templates thanks to codeigniter and smarty.

>CodeIgniter Abandon ship immediately.

CodeIgniter is still okay. Smarty, on the other hand...

Still okay? Sure, if you like frameworks with no future at all, hacked together architecture, legacy PHP 4 code nested so deep there should be a total rewrite to remove all of it and a community which is as kindergarten as it gets.

Ever notice how everyone who complains about PHP are usually complaining about WordPress, Joomla, or other such apps?

Because these apps exist. WordPress, for example, is unparalleled in other language domains. What is the WordPress of Ruby? And in python? Is it Django? Where's the plug-in directory for Django, equivalent to [1]?

I work with WP, I'm the first to recognize it's an old codebase with all defects this entails, but popularity has value. Value that PHP critics dismiss too lightly.

[1] http://wordpress.org/plugins/

I'm not dismissing WordPress's value. Rather, I'm dismissing those that dismiss PHP out-of-hand and their lists of reasons include WordPress.