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Re:Steam Controller by anonymous on Friday September 27, 2013 @04:41PM (#6459413)
I don't see how my right thumb could be as precise as moving the mouse, which I do with all 5 of my fingers (for tiny movements) or from my shoulder (for larger movements). If thumb touchpads were good for FPS games, how come nobody is playing them with their thumb on their laptop's touchpad? Maybe I'm just old, but I don't see myself ever being able to use this.
Re:Steam Controller by noonespecial on Friday September 27, 2013 @06:32PM (#6459990)
Controllers like this are notoriously hard to get right. The tiniest details matter immensely and mean the difference between joyous and unusable.

There's just no way to judge a controller without physically holding it and walking an FPS mile with it as your shoes.

I spent the early 90's going from one giant, gaudy "flight stick" to the next, never knowing that what I really wanted was a pair of miniature thumb-sticks. My mind is wide open to stuff like this.

Re:Steam Controller by kalid on Saturday September 28, 2013 @12:59AM (#6461001)
Thank you for saying this. Logical arguments, especially around fuzzy notions like the feel of a controller, are useful for prioritizing the hypotheses we test. But not for deciding on them.

Given 15 different controller designs, use logic to figure out what order you test them/build them. But at the end, it comes down to the feel.

Re:Steam Controller by aidenn0 on Friday September 27, 2013 @08:30PM (#6460384)
This[1] CH joystick was my bread-and-butter for gaming. I used one one-handed with a joystick in the other for FPS; I used one with the spring switch off on a Y-adapter as a throttle. it's only downside was not enough buttons for fighting games. Also they wear out after about 2-4 years of hard use (or a decade of light use).

I'm down to my last one that works perfectly, and considering building a USB one since all of the joystick parts are still manufactured and available from CH.

http://ec3.images-amazon.com/images/P/B000IBRN7O.01-ABT3ZC4T...

Re:Steam Controller by criley2 on Friday September 27, 2013 @06:11PM (#6459893)
Why not FPS with a laptop? Laptop trackpads are low precision and high latency. They're also ergonomically inferior and the placement is difficult when considering the all-important WASD just above it.

When you read into the details of these two pads they're developing, it sounds extremely exciting.

Some of the highest resolution and performant sensors ever put into a controller.

When combined with the supposed "configuration utility" whereby we have hopefully powerful control to map and bind to will, I can see this being a big win.

I like my 360 controller for PC gaming for many reasons: pain from mouse/kbb overuse being one, comfort when sitting and playing for another, and the simple fact that many games are made for controller and ported to kbb/mouse as well.

So you talk about an ergonomic, high quality, extremely performant, Linux native, configurable, built-for-PC controller?

Color me very interested.

Re:Steam Controller by ioquatix on Friday September 27, 2013 @09:03PM (#6460451)
Apple's trackpads aren't low precision and high latency.
Re:Steam Controller by kcbanner on Friday September 27, 2013 @09:14PM (#6460474)
Heh, have you tried playing an FPS on a mac, with its awful mouse acceleration?
Re:Steam Controller by w1ntermute on Friday September 27, 2013 @11:44PM (#6460834)
This has been my biggest frustration with Macs. I've never been able to get used to the weird mouse acceleration curve. Using a non-Apple mouse usually makes things a little better, but it's still just not right. I even tried installing a 3rd party tool once to fix the issue, but it didn't help much.
Re:Steam Controller by ics on Saturday September 28, 2013 @12:07AM (#6460897)
Was it SmoothMouse[0]? We likely have different needs but I've been pretty satisfied since installing it, especially for my trackball.

[0]: http://smoothmouse.com/

Re:Steam Controller by w1ntermute on Saturday September 28, 2013 @12:14AM (#6460911)
Based on screenshots, it seems like it, but it's been a few years, so if it hasn't been around that long, then no.
Re:Steam Controller by kayoone on Saturday September 28, 2013 @06:11AM (#6461461)
wow, that really improved the feel of the mouse in OSX for me, thanks alot!
Re:Steam Controller by eatfish on Friday September 27, 2013 @11:56PM (#6460865)
Yes, played entire Portal/Portal2 on it. It was fine. Maybe you should be railing at game developers that port to the Mac but then don’t update their acceleration curves to fit the platform. That’s the problem, when games are developed on Windows with the Windows mouse curve and then never adjusted on the Mac port.
Re:Steam Controller by lloeki on Saturday September 28, 2013 @04:42AM (#6461337)
Maybe this can help for games that don't bother to adjust/disable acceleration:

    defaults write .GlobalPreferences com.apple.mouse.scaling -1
    defaults write .GlobalPreferences com.apple.trackpad.scaling -1
I could care less about programmable buttons, but my RAT5 required a kext installed along with the companion software to work properly (hover bugs and whatnot), and it does not seem to have any acceleration, even outside games (I did not use the above settings)
Re:Steam Controller by bentcorner on Friday September 27, 2013 @07:29PM (#6460199)
> how come nobody is playing them with their thumb on their laptop's touchpad?

Touchpads (and mice) don't work like thumbsticks.

Touchpads/mice measure a vector with the size equal to distance traveled. Thumbsticks measure a vector with a size equal to the deflection from center.

Thumbsticks are terrible for mousing tasks (e.g., moving a virtual cursor [rts games]), and mice/touchpads are terrible for thumbstick tasks (e.g., playing a racing/flying game).

Re:Steam Controller by foobarian on Friday September 27, 2013 @08:20PM (#6460351)
Actually raw touchpad output does work like that, it's just adapted to drive a mouse cursor. Imagine a touchpad mode where the position of the mouse cursor on screen gets mapped to the position of the finger on the pad.
Re:Steam Controller by bentcorner on Friday September 27, 2013 @09:48PM (#6460555)
True enough, my (uninformed) guess is that for this to work it would have to be on the level of the touchpad driver.
Re:Steam Controller by hayksaakian on Friday September 27, 2013 @04:48PM (#6459469)
Long time users of trackball mice will disagree with you

http://mobile.logitech.com/en-us/mice-pointers/trackballs

Re:Steam Controller by jjkmk on Friday September 27, 2013 @06:09PM (#6459883)
Using Counter Strike as the flag ship FPS for Valve there currently aren't any professional players using a trackball: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AkghPvIh7ZVwdGZ...
Re:Steam Controller by gcb0 on Friday September 27, 2013 @06:19PM (#6459934)
As a trackball heavy user (i use both thumb and index ones, with both hands) I avoid playing FPS without a mouse!

the thumbs trackball is more precise. But still not good. A good and cheap microsoft mouse is always with me when i'm playing FPSs.

Also, even if the control wasn't an issue, no trackball has more than 300DPI. EVER. The minimum for mouses is 400. I don't know why that is. But even the overly expensive Kensington ones are crappy even to click on a 10x10 button on regular usage, let alone to headshot in a FPS.

Re:Steam Controller by phaus on Friday September 27, 2013 @08:57PM (#6460437)
I wholeheartedly agree that trackballs suck for FPS games, but most pro FPS players advocate keeping the mouse at a fairly low DPI, so that deficiency isn't really the problem.

I have trouble believing that any device that relies on thumb-only input is going to be anywhere near as good as a mouse, but I hope I'm proven wrong.

Re:Steam Controller by jamesgeck0 on Saturday September 28, 2013 @12:42AM (#6460967)
Trackballs really aren't _that_ terrible for precision in FPS. Not pro level, but heckuva lot better than the joystick control consoles currently use. I found I had a harder time in StarCraft than I did in UT2K4, but both were quite playable.

I used a Logitech Trackman for seven years, and the biggest issue was that the force required to move the ball around wasn't constant; it would vary depending on how gunked up the little rollers inside had gotten. I had to clean mine out every day to keep it smooth.

Re:Steam Controller by phaus on Saturday September 28, 2013 @01:32PM (#6462442)
If a person prefers using a trackball, that's great, but when the same tools used by the pros costs about $50, there isn't really any other reason to use anything else.
Re:Steam Controller by jwpeddle on Friday September 27, 2013 @07:12PM (#6460122)
no trackball has more than 300DPI

My 1600DPI L-Trac disagrees.

Re:Steam Controller by gcb0 on Wednesday October 02, 2013 @06:18PM (#6485809)
Ok, One or two $100+ trackballs have it. While all sub $50 mouses are over 3000DPI...
Re:Steam Controller by zero_intp on Saturday September 28, 2013 @10:22AM (#6461866)
I used a Logitech Trackball for more than a decade due to De Quervain syndrome. My specific experience in this topic is that the TB allows for high speed macro motions (RTS control), often easier/faster than a mouse; but for high speed precision (headshots), the mouse wins every time.
Re:Steam Controller by aidenn0 on Friday September 27, 2013 @08:31PM (#6460386)
I use a logitech trackman and still have an optical mouse just for FPS games
Re:Steam Controller by PhasmaFelis on Friday September 27, 2013 @06:17PM (#6459924)
Part of the problem with laptop touchpads is that it's hard to find the center if you lose it. The texturing and concavity on the Steam controller will make that much easier.

The positioning on the Steampad helps, too. Imagine a D-pad or thumbstick built into your laptop in the place where a trackpad normally goes. That's what laptop trackpads are like.

Re:Steam Controller by btbuildem on Friday September 27, 2013 @09:45PM (#6460544)
Imagine one thumb being 1x, the other 10x - then you could dial in precision and speed at the same time.
Re:Steam Controller by nnash on Friday September 27, 2013 @09:41PM (#6460531)
>I don't see how my right thumb could be as precise as moving the mouse

It's a controller, it will never be as precise as a mouse. Trust me when this thing comes out people will be complaining about how they're suddenly losing every game of TF2.

Re:Steam Controller by xerophtye on Saturday September 28, 2013 @04:50AM (#6461347)
Yeah i tired playing LoL with a mouse. Not a good experience. EPICLY HARD. You just can't get that level of rapid precision with a mouse. for FPS games, this controller looks like a BEAST!!! but for games like Dota, this is gonna be a huge pain. I can already see people complaining after every death that they are playing form a controller
Re:Steam Controller by krisc on Friday September 27, 2013 @05:06PM (#6459573)
A laptop's touchpad isn't a handheld controller. Using your thumb would feel awkward.