Re:Minimalistic (vim-like) web browser based on Webkit
by geoka on Tuesday May 26, 2009 @07:27AM
(#626537)
I use conkeror--which is a vimperator "clone" based on xulrunner, with emacs-like keybindings and commands.
"Is it problematic when a site has graphics for navigation?"
It depends. Most of the time it's still a link, so the browser has no problem identifying and highlighting it as such. If it's something fancy (image map? JS magic?)--it can be a problem. Fortunately, such sites are not common.
"Do you cycle through links and then choose the one you wanted, or is there a more direct way of accessing them?"
You press 'f' (for "follow") and a number appears next to each link. Then you enter a number to follow a link.
"Is it really faster than using a mouse?"
It depends. For example, there are whole WM environments which are designed to work without mouse (ratpoison, stumpwm, xmonad, etc.). Naturally, a keyboard-driven browser lends itself beautifully to such environments. Other than that, I find it annoying having to move my hand from the keyboard each time I need to look something up with a browser.
Of course, when I just surf the web, the mouse is usually more convenient.
"Do you need two hands to be efficient, and if so, wouldn't you rather be efficient with only one hand, for example using Opera's mouse gestures?"
Since conkeror is modeled after emacs, I'd say yes (unless you happen to be using a custom keyboard layout or something). As for the efficiency--again, it probably depends on the "mode" I am in (mouse is easier for plain surfing).
Re:Minimalistic (vim-like) web browser based on Webkit
by thesnowdog on Wednesday June 10, 2009 @02:47AM
(#650676)
To be fair Conkeror, the FF extension, came first and while there's certainly been a two-way exchange of ideas since it's unlikely that Vimperator would exist without the pioneering work done on Conkeror.
Re:Minimalistic (vim-like) web browser based on Webkit
by shiranaihito on Tuesday May 26, 2009 @07:54AM
(#626562)
As for the efficiency--again, it probably depends on the "mode" I am in (mouse is easier for plain surfing)
Besides plain, what other kind of surfing is there?
Or are you talking about the differences between using those keyboard-only WMs and normal ones?
As far as I know, using only the keyboard for some task is usually about efficiency gains, but in the case of surfing, I'm obviously not sure there's much to be gained, compared to mouse gestures.
On the other hand, if using only the keyboard is some kind of personal preference, that may leave something to be desired in other areas too.. Such as, a mouse :p
Re:Minimalistic (vim-like) web browser based on Webkit
by geoka on Tuesday May 26, 2009 @08:50AM
(#626623)
"Besides plain, what other kind of surfing is there?"
Working with online documentation while coding, for example, is much more efficient for me with conkeror. Or looking up some piece of information while I am typing a reply to a HN comment :)
On the other hand, it's an overkill for me to keep both my hands on the keyboard while I am reading a nytimes story or following links at leisure.
Re:Minimalistic (vim-like) web browser based on Webkit
by shiranaihito on Tuesday May 26, 2009 @11:27AM
(#626849)
Working with online documentation while coding, for example, is much more efficient for me with conkeror. Or looking up some piece of information while I am typing a reply to a HN comment :)
Re:Minimalistic (vim-like) web browser based on Webkit
by visitor4rmindia on Tuesday May 26, 2009 @06:54AM
(#626515)
>Do you cycle through links and then choose the one you wanted, or is there a more direct way of accessing them?
Opera has an excellent way to select links using spatial navigation (shift+down,+up,+left,+right). It's remarkably easy to navigate to any link quickly on the page.
Re:Minimalistic (vim-like) web browser based on Webkit
by uggedal on Tuesday May 26, 2009 @07:25AM
(#626536)
With Vimperator you press <f> to annotate all links on the page with a number. Then you type a number to open the link associated with that number. If you type <F> (capital), the number you type afterward will be opened in a new tab.
Re:Minimalistic (vim-like) web browser based on Webkit
by visitor4rmindia on Tuesday May 26, 2009 @05:28AM
(#626454)
I do. I actually use (lynx+vim) for most browsing, and Opera (which has good keyboard bindings) when I want to post something (like now).
It's not that I have anything against the mouse but I enjoy the workflow and it works very well for me. Plus I don't have to worry about adverts or drive-by infections most of the time :-)
Re:Minimalistic (vim-like) web browser based on Webkit
by Deadsunrise on Tuesday May 26, 2009 @02:57AM
(#626372)
I prefer vimperator. It's a firefox extension that modifies a lot of things (looks, key bindings, etc) to make it behave like vim: http://vimperator.org/trac/wiki/Vimperator
Re:Minimalistic (vim-like) web browser based on Webkit
by jokermatt999 on Tuesday May 26, 2009 @08:27AM
(#626589)
I love the look of Tree Style Tabs/Vimperator. I've also started using Hide Chrome (https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/5737) which gives even more space. Sadly, I don't believe it is maintained any longer, and I haven't seen a replacement for it yet.
Re:Minimalistic (vim-like) web browser based on Webkit
by s2r2 on Tuesday May 26, 2009 @03:04AM
(#626378)
Don't forget Conkeror, something like an "Emacs-erator" but without the whole Firefox, using xulrunner only: http://conkeror.org
Its keybindings resemble the ones of vimperator in some respects ("f" = follow), but reminds you more of emacs regarding things like (mini-) buffers, M-x whatever, ...
Re:Minimalistic (vim-like) web browser based on Webkit
by toki on Tuesday May 26, 2009 @06:59AM
(#626520)
I use keyboard navigation for a longer time now because i cant stand browsing by touchpad. The keyboard-navigation-methods that firefox and ie use are rather outdated, there are much cooler and better methods today.
So i have tested many methods, and here are my favourites:
1. Opera! The Browser has something called spatial navigation. It somehow works like the cursor key navigation in "Links" but much better and gives you a feeling of rather direct control. Very cool...
2. Firefox + "mouseless browsing"-Plugin. Every link on the webpage gets a number, a little bit like footnotes, and you surf via entering numbers. Sounds complicated but it is rather intuitive and very fast. Well, the webpages look a little bit uglier than before. Try it out, it should work with every Firefox-Version.
Both of these methods force you to surf a little bit more concentrated and less relaxing, tv-like. But for just getting work done the methods are just great. They work with nearly every webpage, even those you wouldnt expect. The only times i use the touchpad is for flash-applications (like the video-windows on youtube). I dont even miss a mouse.
I think Vimperator could be interesting too, but it somehow always looks too complicated for me.
Re:Minimalistic (vim-like) web browser based on Webkit
by mtoledo on Tuesday May 26, 2009 @09:27AM
(#626673)
I only browse using the keyboard with firefox+mouseless browsing. It's got to a point where its faster than the mouse in 80% of the situations, and acceptable in other 15% of the situations. In 5% of the situations I still have to grab the mouse, which is annoying.
I wonder if any of those other browsers would fix it for me. But conkeror's website, which seems to be my favorite since I'm an emacs user, looks offline right now.
Re:Minimalistic (vim-like) web browser based on Webkit
by riobard on Tuesday May 26, 2009 @03:13PM
(#627290)
I'm using Vimperator, but got a problem: how to escape from embedded Flash once it gets keyboard focus? Because once the focus is in some embedded objects, I can no longer control Vimperator unless click the mouse to move the focus back to the page. Very annoying ...
I like the idea, but the keyboard-only navigation is going to be bottlenecked by the actual web page.
Is it problematic when a site has graphics for navigation?
Do you cycle through links and then choose the one you wanted, or is there a more direct way of accessing them?
Is it really faster than using a mouse?
Do you need two hands to be efficient, and if so, wouldn't you rather be efficient with only one hand, for example using Opera's mouse gestures?
"Is it problematic when a site has graphics for navigation?"
It depends. Most of the time it's still a link, so the browser has no problem identifying and highlighting it as such. If it's something fancy (image map? JS magic?)--it can be a problem. Fortunately, such sites are not common.
"Do you cycle through links and then choose the one you wanted, or is there a more direct way of accessing them?"
You press 'f' (for "follow") and a number appears next to each link. Then you enter a number to follow a link.
"Is it really faster than using a mouse?"
It depends. For example, there are whole WM environments which are designed to work without mouse (ratpoison, stumpwm, xmonad, etc.). Naturally, a keyboard-driven browser lends itself beautifully to such environments. Other than that, I find it annoying having to move my hand from the keyboard each time I need to look something up with a browser.
Of course, when I just surf the web, the mouse is usually more convenient.
"Do you need two hands to be efficient, and if so, wouldn't you rather be efficient with only one hand, for example using Opera's mouse gestures?"
Since conkeror is modeled after emacs, I'd say yes (unless you happen to be using a custom keyboard layout or something). As for the efficiency--again, it probably depends on the "mode" I am in (mouse is easier for plain surfing).
Besides plain, what other kind of surfing is there?
Or are you talking about the differences between using those keyboard-only WMs and normal ones?
As far as I know, using only the keyboard for some task is usually about efficiency gains, but in the case of surfing, I'm obviously not sure there's much to be gained, compared to mouse gestures.
On the other hand, if using only the keyboard is some kind of personal preference, that may leave something to be desired in other areas too.. Such as, a mouse :p
Working with online documentation while coding, for example, is much more efficient for me with conkeror. Or looking up some piece of information while I am typing a reply to a HN comment :)
On the other hand, it's an overkill for me to keep both my hands on the keyboard while I am reading a nytimes story or following links at leisure.
Fair enough :)
My wrists were sore for around 1,5 years because of bad ergonomy.
Opera has an excellent way to select links using spatial navigation (shift+down,+up,+left,+right). It's remarkably easy to navigate to any link quickly on the page.
Also http://www.opera.com/browser/tutorials/nomouse/ is a good place to start "keyboard-only" browsing.
It's not that I have anything against the mouse but I enjoy the workflow and it works very well for me. Plus I don't have to worry about adverts or drive-by infections most of the time :-)
Together with Style Tree Tabs it looks pretty cool and minimalistic: http://www.flickr.com/photos/deadsunrise/3501399270/
Its keybindings resemble the ones of vimperator in some respects ("f" = follow), but reminds you more of emacs regarding things like (mini-) buffers, M-x whatever, ...
// Edit: Just stumbled upon another one: http://redmine.philpep.org/projects/show/cream using C, GTK+, WebKit, vimperator-like interface
So i have tested many methods, and here are my favourites:
1. Opera! The Browser has something called spatial navigation. It somehow works like the cursor key navigation in "Links" but much better and gives you a feeling of rather direct control. Very cool...
2. Firefox + "mouseless browsing"-Plugin. Every link on the webpage gets a number, a little bit like footnotes, and you surf via entering numbers. Sounds complicated but it is rather intuitive and very fast. Well, the webpages look a little bit uglier than before. Try it out, it should work with every Firefox-Version.
Both of these methods force you to surf a little bit more concentrated and less relaxing, tv-like. But for just getting work done the methods are just great. They work with nearly every webpage, even those you wouldnt expect. The only times i use the touchpad is for flash-applications (like the video-windows on youtube). I dont even miss a mouse.
I think Vimperator could be interesting too, but it somehow always looks too complicated for me.
Opera has an entire tutorial on ratless browsing.
I wonder if any of those other browsers would fix it for me. But conkeror's website, which seems to be my favorite since I'm an emacs user, looks offline right now.