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Re:Germany Sets Standard for Bitcoin Regulation by ferdo on Monday August 19, 2013 @01:42PM (#6238493)
Thus far, government efforts to regulate ones and zeroes haven't met with great success.
Re:Germany Sets Standard for Bitcoin Regulation by iSnow on Monday August 19, 2013 @01:47PM (#6238521)
Regulation is not about the ones and zeros but about the conversion of € to BTC and account keeping.

Both account keeping and converting one currency into another are well understood problems for regulators.

Re:Germany Sets Standard for Bitcoin Regulation by ferdo on Monday August 19, 2013 @02:02PM (#6238632)
Regulation is about control, which is what Germany is now trying to do with Bitcoin. I suspect the regulators will fail with regard to control of Bitcoin in the long run.
Re:Germany Sets Standard for Bitcoin Regulation by JonFish85 on Monday August 19, 2013 @02:12PM (#6238685)
"I suspect the regulators will fail with regard to control of Bitcoin in the long run."

How do you figure? Germany, like any other developed country, can simply go to the delta: merchants who want to stay in business. Want your business license? Better comply with currency laws.

Re:Germany Sets Standard for Bitcoin Regulation by ferdo on Monday August 19, 2013 @02:32PM (#6238789)
The argument could be made that this move by Germany is actually a ploy to make Bitcoin look like a paperwork/legal nightmare and time-moneysuck so that merchants will stay away from it.

Bitcoin is too useful to be squashed by mere government regulation. If a few more countries employ these draconian measures, some cash-starved government will welcome Bitcoin in the future.

If regulators ("the body of Leviathan and the head of a social worker", to lift from Joseph Stromberg) were smart, they'd advocate easy exchange rules and impose a small tax on each transaction on the exchange.

Over the course of generations, I tend to have more faith in markets than in governments. That's why I think regulators will fail in their efforts in the long run.

Re:Germany Sets Standard for Bitcoin Regulation by JonFish85 on Monday August 19, 2013 @02:49PM (#6238879)
Is it also a ploy to keep people away from credit cards? Cash? Gift cards? It's an interesting novelty for now, with almost no legal strings attached. It's almost like paying for things with rubber bands--cool and interesting at first. But as soon as it's trying to play with the big boys (credit cards, gift cards, et. al), its use has to follow the rules, and suddenly it isn't so novel after all. That'd be my prediction.
Re:Germany Sets Standard for Bitcoin Regulation by ferdo on Monday August 19, 2013 @03:27PM (#6239174)
I see the opposite. Regulations will create an even larger undermarket for Bitcoin than exists now. In the next decade, use of Bitcoin (or something similar) will have grown enough outside of regulation that the next generation of Bitcoin users won't even pay attention to the regulators anymore.
Re:Germany Sets Standard for Bitcoin Regulation by VMG on Monday August 19, 2013 @05:32PM (#6240010)
Then can regulate some of the end points, but they can't control the transactions themselves.
Re:Germany Sets Standard for Bitcoin Regulation by venomsnake on Monday August 19, 2013 @02:30PM (#6238781)
No one controls bitcoins. They control the EUR/Btc conversion. If you have all the BTC in the world but cannot buy food with them - because depending on where are in EU selling in other currency may be illegal.

So the state has a lot of tools.

Re:Germany Sets Standard for Bitcoin Regulation by ferdo on Monday August 19, 2013 @02:38PM (#6238824)
> No one controls bitcoins.

That really annoys regulatory mindsets.

Re:Germany Sets Standard for Bitcoin Regulation by iSnow on Monday August 19, 2013 @03:03PM (#6238978)
After we had to bail out the banksters, there is not much love in Germany for unregulated financial entities, either established or with an unproven exchange medium.

Bafin does not seem to care if you use btc to trade with your friends, but once € are involved they make the rules. Don't know if that angers you, but I think they have a case.

Re:Germany Sets Standard for Bitcoin Regulation by rayiner on Monday August 19, 2013 @02:25PM (#6238753)
Almost all traditional finance today is just ones and zeros, and its all quite successfully regulated.
Re:Germany Sets Standard for Bitcoin Regulation by VMG on Monday August 19, 2013 @05:30PM (#6239994)
Traditionally, they can point guns at the guys running the servers and tell them what to do (Liberty Reserve)

Not so easy with Bitcoin

Re:Germany Sets Standard for Bitcoin Regulation by ferdo on Monday August 19, 2013 @02:33PM (#6238796)
Bitcoin's ones and zeroes don't originate in a central bank.
Re:Germany Sets Standard for Bitcoin Regulation by mpyne on Monday August 19, 2013 @03:12PM (#6239059)
Neither do the others. There are very many "central banks" out there, and the U.S. creates money out of thin air just as successfully as people mine Bitcoins out of thin air.
Re:Germany Sets Standard for Bitcoin Regulation by ferdo on Monday August 19, 2013 @03:23PM (#6239142)
Unlike the creations of the central banks, there's an end to Bitcoin's creations. The value in this model is seen in Bitcoin's steadily rising and holding price.
Re:Germany Sets Standard for Bitcoin Regulation by brazzy on Monday August 19, 2013 @03:48PM (#6239326)
If you believe that speculative bubbles constitute value, sure...
Re:Germany Sets Standard for Bitcoin Regulation by ferdo on Monday August 19, 2013 @05:05PM (#6239825)
All monetary systems are speculative bubbles. Some just have the backing of a government to give support to the bubble. The last guy out of assignats probably felt a little foolish.
Re:Germany Sets Standard for Bitcoin Regulation by brazzy on Monday August 19, 2013 @08:24PM (#6240823)
Apparently you have no idea what a speculative bubble is.
Re:Germany Sets Standard for Bitcoin Regulation by ferdo on Tuesday August 20, 2013 @12:01AM (#6241649)
I know enough to have already exited the bubble market that's not too far from busting.
Re:Germany Sets Standard for Bitcoin Regulation by rayiner on Monday August 19, 2013 @02:56PM (#6238927)
Which makes it harder to regulate how?
Re:Germany Sets Standard for Bitcoin Regulation by ferdo on Monday August 19, 2013 @03:28PM (#6239181)
If you don't create it, you can't control it. You can make laws about it, but you still don't actually control it.