News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Chomsky praises Snowden and condemns US hypocrisy by OldSchool on Sunday July 28, 2013 @01:48PM (#6117386)
Chomsky is one of the greatest intellectuals of our time. The man has nothing to lose and nothing to gain by voicing his thoughts. Too bad he is getting up there in age but hopefully we will enjoy his presence for many more years.
Re:Chomsky praises Snowden and condemns US hypocrisy by galois17 on Sunday July 28, 2013 @02:57PM (#6117657)
"Chomsky is one of the greatest intellectuals of our time"

This is undoubtedly true. He is one of the most cited authors of all time.

It is unfortunate that the american media does not give him the attention he deserves. In fact, in Europe Noam Chomsky and his opinions are very highly regarded and his writings are taught in schools. I am Greek (living in the U.S for the last 5 years) and I was first introduced to Noam Chomsky during a writing class in my (public) high school.

I guess the fact that he is an anarchist and very often criticizes the U.S government and foreign policy does not make him popular within the U.S.

Btw, some of us, no matter what country we are from, need to understand that when someone criticizes our country's government and its actions, it does not mean automatically that they are criticizing us. I honestly find it very naive when someone defends their government's policies just because they feel somehow they have to do so.

Re:Chomsky praises Snowden and condemns US hypocrisy by speeder on Sunday July 28, 2013 @03:57PM (#6117863)
I am from Brazil, he is not formally taught at schools, but I heard many geography and history teachers mention or cite him.
Re:Chomsky praises Snowden and condemns US hypocrisy by berntb on Sunday July 28, 2013 @05:20PM (#6118128)
I started to read up on Chomsky a couple of times but didn't get far.

The first time, I saw his opinions re USA's/NATO's intervention in ex-Yugoslavia. It just seemed like conspiracy theories, especially when I googled and found his apologetics for the Khmer Rouge (before they were found to be massmurding crazies).

The second time, I got a link to a Chomsky interview. I got shocked -- Chomsky claimed that he didn't talk about the Sudan atrocities, because he couldn't influence much. WTF?! If the most famous academic US-critic, beloved by dictators, publicly condemned the Darfur handling etc by Sudan's government as 1000 times worse than what he complained about Israel, it would have an effect...

I wrote Chomsky off as another effect of the US right/left being equally crazy. Here in Europe we mostly get the left crazies, so he is big. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe. It seems to me Chomsky argues by (correctly) noting that governments lie a lot -- then he comes with really weird explanations to what really happens.

Re:Chomsky praises Snowden and condemns US hypocrisy by lukifer on Sunday July 28, 2013 @06:07PM (#6118265)
Chomsky has always been open about the fact that he believes the moral thing to do is criticize and scrutinize one's own nation and government first, because that is where you have the highest possibility of influence.

Despite being atheist/agnostic, he takes this principle straight from the Bible: "How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye." Matthew 7:4-5

Re:Chomsky praises Snowden and condemns US hypocrisy by berntb on Monday July 29, 2013 @03:36AM (#6119793)
>> one's own nation and government first, because that is where you have the highest possibility of influence.

(Chomsky is probably bigger outside USA. E.g. the Milosevic regime was a big fan.)

I don't really care why an analysis have very different standards for different countries/companies/etc, that just isn't a quality sign... It doesn't seem more serious if the double standards are motivated by "Hey, I'm a self-hater..."

Re:Chomsky praises Snowden and condemns US hypocrisy by lukifer on Monday July 29, 2013 @06:21AM (#6120171)
Criticism is not hate. It is criticism. It can come from friends, enemies, or yourself.

Also, Chomsky has always been severely critical of authoritarian and violent regimes across the world; the reason he has focused disproportionally on American regimes is due to the moral principle I referenced above.

Re:Chomsky praises Snowden and condemns US hypocrisy by berntb on Monday July 29, 2013 @06:48AM (#6120244)
A recap seems correct here:

1. I point out that Chomsky's motivation for not engaging in Sudan's problems (no influence) are just not serious; his involvement would have very probably made a big difference and potentially saved many lives.

2. You claim that Chomsky think it is more important to complain about USA. (+)

3. I answer that I don't really care why someone has double standards for different groups/countries/religions/etc.

4. You play linguistic games with half of a term I use ("self-hater").

5. I say bye bye.

(+) Not relevant anyway, except as a form of explanation of why, not an argument Chomsky's position was serious.

Re:Chomsky praises Snowden and condemns US hypocrisy by alecco on Sunday July 28, 2013 @05:49PM (#6118215)
You have information bias. US mainstream media reported widely on Chavez praising Chomsky and Chomsky condemning US foreign policy towards Venezuela. But years later, Chomsky denounced the arrest of journalists in Venezuela but this time it wasn't US MSM news worthy.
Re:Chomsky praises Snowden and condemns US hypocrisy by berntb on Sunday July 28, 2013 @07:23PM (#6118524)
1. I wrote that I was from Europe, so your conspiracy theories about US mainstream media trying to make him look bad isn't applicable.

2. I discussed an interview with Chomsky, where he himself discussed why he didn't criticize X. I noted his motivation was just not rational/true/etc. So your Venezuelan claims about an example are doubly irrelevant.

Re:Chomsky praises Snowden and condemns US hypocrisy by falk on Sunday July 28, 2013 @09:39PM (#6118938)
Just because you don't think something is plausible doesn't mean you should denigrate it by calling it a conspiracy theory. I don't know exactly what you're talking about so it's hard for me to research it.

For example, the CIA helps traffic opium/heroin across the world. That sounds like a conspiracy theory, but it's true.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Politics_of_Heroin_in_South...

Re:Chomsky praises Snowden and condemns US hypocrisy by fixxer on Sunday July 28, 2013 @02:10PM (#6117484)
Agreed. He is so very adept at reducing a complicated system into simple relationships of cause and effect.

No government is to be trusted not to manipulate the population through fear. That should be taught in grade school.

Re:Chomsky praises Snowden and condemns US hypocrisy by lukifer on Sunday July 28, 2013 @05:40PM (#6118190)
"The burden of proof must always be on state power to justify itself."
Re:Chomsky praises Snowden and condemns US hypocrisy by MarkMc on Monday July 29, 2013 @05:22AM (#6120053)
I agree that his linguistic and academic contribution is of the highest order, but I'm not so sure about his political analysis.

Here are his comments in 1977 regarding the reported genocide in Cambodia [1]: "We do not pretend to know where the truth lies amidst these sharply conflicting assessments; rather, we again want to emphasize some crucial points. What filters through to the American public is a seriously distorted version of the evidence available, emphasizing alleged Khmer Rouge atrocities and downplaying or ignoring the crucial U.S. role, direct and indirect, in the torment that Cambodia has suffered. Evidence that focuses on the American role, like the Hildebrand and Porter volume, is ignored, not on the basis of truthfulness or scholarship but because the message is unpalatable."

And on the veracity of reports about horrific slaughter made by Cambodian refugees: "Refugees are frightened and defenseless, at the mercy of alien forces. They naturally tend to report what they believe their interlocuters wish to hear. While these reports must be considered seriously, care and caution are necessary. Specifically, refugees questioned by Westerners or Thais have a vested interest in reporting atrocities on the part of Cambodian revolutionaries, an obvious fact that no serious reporter will fail to take into account."

Did Chomsky show poor judgement by discounting such refugee reports? Was the evidence of genocide really so muddy in 1977 that you could not 'know where the truth lies'?

[1] http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/2779086.html

Re:Chomsky praises Snowden and condemns US hypocrisy by WayneDB on Sunday July 28, 2013 @02:49PM (#6117620)
He is a great intellectual, but he MAY also be acting as just another control mechanism, a gatekeeper:

http://educate-yourself.org/cn/noamchomskygatekepper26sep05....

https://startpage.com/do/search?query=chomsky+gatekeeper

Bio of the author of the first article - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/daniel-abrahamson

(Has the mention of this simple possibility offended you? If you think it's impossible, tell me why.)

Re:Chomsky praises Snowden and condemns US hypocrisy by vdaniuk on Sunday July 28, 2013 @04:44PM (#6118048)
I have no opinion on Chomsky as I am not really acquainted with his works. However, I was interested in him and trying to get some sort of minority opinion on Chomsky I decided to investigate your links. My conclusion is based on this great quote: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof". I have seen zero citations, links or verifiable research on the pages, so for the time being I will use more conventional facts about Chomsky.
Re:Chomsky praises Snowden and condemns US hypocrisy by lukifer on Sunday July 28, 2013 @05:55PM (#6118229)
I agree with the principle of "extraordinary proof", but in practice, what qualifies as extraordinary is highly subjective. To a Creationist, spontaneous generation of life is extraordinary. To a Truther, the buildings falling due to fire alone is extraordinary, etc.

I prefer the idea that an extraordinary amount of certainty requires extraordinary proof. Skepticism should be the default position.

Re:Chomsky praises Snowden and condemns US hypocrisy by recusancy on Sunday July 28, 2013 @04:42PM (#6118041)
Oh good. Trutherism and NWO conspiracies.
[deleted]
Re:Chomsky praises Snowden and condemns US hypocrisy by WayneDB on Sunday July 28, 2013 @03:25PM (#6117752)
Sorry...what does colloidal silver have to do with it?

Did you read the author's bio? He's no slouch - Yale grad, litigator with experience in the Supreme Court, writes for HuffPo...but I guess we should write it off immediately because...colloidal silver? You tell me because I don't know anything about colloidal silver.

Re:Chomsky praises Snowden and condemns US hypocrisy by jgalt212 on Sunday July 28, 2013 @02:48PM (#6117617)
Irrespective of anything Chomsky says on the whole Snowden affair, Chomsky is bad American/borderline traitor. If there's an anti-American government position to take on an issue, he'll find it and take it.
Re:Chomsky praises Snowden and condemns US hypocrisy by northwest on Sunday July 28, 2013 @03:00PM (#6117669)
Why would you think that criticism of something is the same as being fundamentally against that thing?

I'd say what you're doing here is "emotional thinking". Try being more rational when thinking.

When you love your country, you actually have the duty to point things out that are wrong. That's the only way problems can be corrected. Otherwise it would mean you're ok with your country decaying.

(Just like with your boy/girlfriend or husband - if you love them, you need to openly talk about the problems.)

Re:Chomsky praises Snowden and condemns US hypocrisy by kaonashi on Sunday July 28, 2013 @03:27PM (#6117760)
Says the Ayn Rand disciple. Anti-government is great, unless it's anti-American government, then it's treason.
Re:Chomsky praises Snowden and condemns US hypocrisy by jes on Sunday July 28, 2013 @06:14PM (#6118301)
Objectivism is not anti-government, and indeed, sees government as necessary in order to protect the rights of individuals (all individuals) from those who would otherwise violate them.
Re:Chomsky praises Snowden and condemns US hypocrisy by kaonashi on Monday July 29, 2013 @05:36PM (#6124054)
Right, it's just power worship. So government in service of the powerful at the expense of the weak is a-ok; the converse, evil.
Re:Chomsky praises Snowden and condemns US hypocrisy by pfraze on Sunday July 28, 2013 @02:53PM (#6117640)
Dissent isn't treason, even if you do it a lot.
Re:Chomsky praises Snowden and condemns US hypocrisy by junto on Sunday July 28, 2013 @04:59PM (#6118084)
Yet
Re:Chomsky praises Snowden and condemns US hypocrisy by jgalt212 on Sunday July 28, 2013 @03:12PM (#6117706)
He dissents, per Chris Hitchens, even when such dissent is "stupid and ignorant." So if Chomsky is too smart to be "stupid and ignorant," he must do so out of his need to be a bad American.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fighting_wor...

Re:Chomsky praises Snowden and condemns US hypocrisy by grandalf on Sunday July 28, 2013 @04:38PM (#6118024)
I think you might be trolling so I hesitate to make this comment, but Chomsky is anti-authoritarian in the same way as most US founders were. For some reason in the middle of his career, Hitchens took a very strong toward statism and the associated hypocrisy and authoritarianism.

That doesn't make Hitchens' intellect any less entertaining, but if you look closely at his worldview it's clear that he willfully indulged a big blind spot for the follies of state power and coercive force. Rand would surely agree with my assessment.

Re:Chomsky praises Snowden and condemns US hypocrisy by pfraze on Sunday July 28, 2013 @03:40PM (#6117796)
Disagreement is not evidence of treason or conspiracy. Chomsky can be both smart and wrong.