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Re:All three major Russian carriers dump iPhone by gcb0 on Wednesday July 17, 2013 @11:17AM (#6058134)
Any one care to tell us how good/bad is a market that outlaws phone subsidies?

Is there better competition on service quality and cost or does it end up being just the same?

Re:All three major Russian carriers dump iPhone by mynegation on Wednesday July 17, 2013 @12:41PM (#6058648)
In three words: it is great! Not sure what lack of phone subsidies has to do with it though, or even if there is such a thing.

I lived in Russia and now live in Canada, and I would take Russian mobile market over Canadian any day. Dirt cheap, fierce competition between operators, over-abundant coverage, hidden fees are much less prevalent, there are contracts but pretty much everyone is on prepaid, buying new SIM card is a breeze.

I do not know if subsidized phones are forbidden, but much more likely the tradition of buying own phones is historical. Back in 90s owning a phone was a status symbol, there were no credit bureaus, no credit histories, inflation was rampant and ruble FX rate was very volatile. Everyone trusted only cold hard cash (preferably USD).

Later the country was swamped with lots and lots of cheap phones. So-called "grey" phones (euphemism for "smuggled") were brought in circumvention already lax or non-existent import regulations.

So I guess it is just not in the Russian tradition to sell subsidized phones.

Re:All three major Russian carriers dump iPhone by geoka9 on Wednesday July 17, 2013 @01:40PM (#6059009)
> buying new SIM card is a breeze

The situation is similar in Ukraine with one exception: in Russia, you'll have to let the store scan your passport to buy a SIM card. In Ukraine, you can buy SIM "starter packs" in bulk if you please, completely anonymously.

Re:All three major Russian carriers dump iPhone by tebuevd on Wednesday July 17, 2013 @03:45PM (#6059810)
I completely disagree. Passport information is collected upon purchasing a SIM-card diminishing all hopes of privacy. Furthermore, there is roaming between states/provinces in Russia, so a SIM bought in one state is extremely expensive to use in another. I know for a fact that this isn't the case in the US and Canada. But, yes, generally prices are lower in Russia.
Re:All three major Russian carriers dump iPhone by ash on Wednesday July 17, 2013 @07:08PM (#6060628)
> Passport information is collected upon purchasing a SIM-card

Not always. You can purchase anonymous SIM too. I did it two years ago on a train station. Price for calls is a little higher this way though.

Re:All three major Russian carriers dump iPhone by tikhonj on Wednesday July 17, 2013 @11:29AM (#6058216)
My impression from visiting there a couple of times is that there is much more healthy competition among phone companies. It is very easy just to buy whatever SIM card you want--I could just walk into one of many phone stores and get one for my trip. There was also quite a bit more advertising for the bigger brands, which leads me to believe they have to work harder to acquire and keep customers.

Dealing with phones and SIM cards there was much nicer than in the US, but that isn't saying very much! The US phone market is a complete mess.

That said, I have no idea how much the law about phone subsidies helps this.

Re:All three major Russian carriers dump iPhone by xentronium on Wednesday July 17, 2013 @11:47AM (#6058340)
> There was also quite a bit more advertising for the bigger brands, which leads me to believe they have to work harder to acquire and keep customers

Nah, don't be fooled. Most of the time, The Big Three (MTS, Beeline, Megafon) have almost identical pricing. They have been under regulatory scrutiny for price fixing more than once. Besides, there are several ridiculous features here (like inter-regional roaming, when you pay significantly more in different cities). However, it's really easy to buy a sim card, and that's what many people do, they have a Moscow SIM card and a Saint Petersburg SIM card.

Quality of data connection is usually about average, could be better, could be worse. FWIW, I live in a small city (<300k pop).

Re:All three major Russian carriers dump iPhone by guard-of-terra on Wednesday July 17, 2013 @12:00PM (#6058421)
It doesn't actually outlaw phone subsidies. There were a Beeline booth selling simple phone with contract for 200 roubles (~$7) at the musical fest I've visited last week.

(Carrier can lock phone; carrier would have to unlock it after the contract ends; but nobody does that on any scale)

It's just the marked shaped itself that everyone first buys phone then decides on carrier; everyone is on prepaid; thus no long-term contracts.

You just dump money into a terminal once or twice per month and use that credit for calls/data/options.

Re:All three major Russian carriers dump iPhone by mtgx on Wednesday July 17, 2013 @11:47AM (#6058339)
Yes, much better when there are none or very little phone subsidies. They actually compete on services.

Unfortunately, since the iPhone, carriers in many countries have started adopting a very similar subsidy program to the one in US, and the value/buck has done downhill since then. But the pre-paid market is still alive and well at least, and you can get a ton of minutes and data for small prices.

Re:All three major Russian carriers dump iPhone by guard-of-terra on Wednesday July 17, 2013 @11:53AM (#6058376)
It's not that they compete on services in Russia (the only service they compete on is ripping you off) but you can always change your SIM card and get full service, data included.

You can buy a SIM card for $5 and have it working in a matter of minutes on any phone.

Re:All three major Russian carriers dump iPhone by PeterisP on Wednesday July 17, 2013 @05:35PM (#6060322)
You get cutthroat competition both on price and availability.

If any operator is ignoring poor service in some countryside region, competition will put up a few towers, make a local advertising campaign, and people can switch immediately.

Midsize companies (a few hundred employees) have enough negotiating power to ask for perfect coverage in a freshly built office building in the middle of nowhere, as they can trivially switch all their business phones overnight to a different operator otherwise.

And the cost, well, in my place are teenager plans for ~$5/mth that cover unlimited minutes/sms. I'm paying ~$10/mth to get data as well (speedcapped after 2gb, unlimited is a bit more).

Re:All three major Russian carriers dump iPhone by enra on Thursday July 18, 2013 @04:19AM (#6062441)
Finland had also a ban for phone subsidies for a long time, and I guess now they're allowed in some limits.

For a customer, it's great. You use whatever phone you want, you buy it where ever you want, change operators easily, and pay way way less than in US.

My plan, with unlimited data & 3/4G speed, with 2-simcards (so I can use the plan in two devices), costs 15 euros a month. Compared that to ATT & T-mobile, $60+ a month and get an abysmal coverage which doesn't even work inside a house most of the time.

Re:All three major Russian carriers dump iPhone by ak0s on Wednesday July 17, 2013 @11:26AM (#6058200)
Unlimited mobile internet is $13(Beeline) — $20 (MTS) per month in Moscow region. Quality is far from good, can't compare to other countries though.