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Re:Linus Torvalds defends his right to shame Linux kernel de... by twerquie on Tuesday July 16, 2013 @01:50PM (#6053456)
It's clear that Linus, having spent his career working from home in his bathrobe, has absolutely no clue what professionalism means. It's less about the neckties and watercooler politics he imagines and more about treating your peers with basic respect and human dignity.

He appears to have the social skills of someone recently released from maximum security prison. He's like a homeschooled kid who bites the other children at birthday parties.

Re:Linus Torvalds defends his right to shame Linux kernel de... by sp332 on Tuesday July 16, 2013 @01:53PM (#6053476)
He has a lot of experience doing what works for his particular project. His style works for his most active contributors and lieutenants. I don't think you can say he has under-developed social skills, but they are probably "over-fitted" to a specific social structure.
Re:Linus Torvalds defends his right to shame Linux kernel de... by Joeri on Tuesday July 16, 2013 @01:59PM (#6053536)
But does his project work despite his abrasive style or because of it? We have to avoid confusing correlation and causation.
Re:Linus Torvalds defends his right to shame Linux kernel de... by sp332 on Tuesday July 16, 2013 @02:02PM (#6053559)
He addresses this in the quote in the article. When he acts less abrasive, people take him less seriously.
Re:Linus Torvalds defends his right to shame Linux kernel de... by MartinCron on Tuesday July 16, 2013 @02:18PM (#6053689)
Which is exactly the thing a person would say to rationalize abrasive behavior.

Honestly, at this point, Linus has so much credibility he could communicate exclusively in Esperanto and people would still take him seriously.

[deleted]
Re:Linus Torvalds defends his right to shame Linux kernel de... by thezilch on Tuesday July 16, 2013 @01:58PM (#6053526)
And? What makes something right? Or that there is only one right approach? That's Linus's point; having everyone agree and hug it out is a waste of his time. You don't have to report directly to him to make things happen.
Re:Linus Torvalds defends his right to shame Linux kernel de... by twerquie on Tuesday July 16, 2013 @02:50PM (#6053935)
(I deleted my comment above before I saw your reply)

Society has norms for determining right and wrong social behaviour. We teach children not to behave this way at a very early age. I'm sure these societal values aren't completely consistent across cultures and ages, but I'd be surprised if most people you ask don't characterize his language as hostile and abusive.

Of course, everyone has a right to be an asshole.

Re:Linus Torvalds defends his right to shame Linux kernel de... by bjornsteffanson on Tuesday July 16, 2013 @01:53PM (#6053477)
As a Swede, it seems to me he's just acting Swedish.
Re:Linus Torvalds defends his right to shame Linux kernel de... by seivan on Tuesday July 16, 2013 @02:05PM (#6053595)
Actually, it's the opposite.

"This is specifically contrasted to the Swedish consensus decision-making, where the manager makes sure that everyone involved has been heard before decisions are taken."

Ergo the "management by perkele" - as a Swede, you probably know what perkele is ;-)

More about it here; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Management_by_perkele

Also acted out in this commercial; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8_7yPocGPg

Re:Linus Torvalds defends his right to shame Linux kernel de... by bjornsteffanson on Tuesday July 16, 2013 @02:34PM (#6053810)
Ah, I think you may be right on that one. Perhaps more accurately we could say he was just acting Scandinavian. :)
Re:Linus Torvalds defends his right to shame Linux kernel de... by commandar on Tuesday July 16, 2013 @01:57PM (#6053520)
This is something I've heard repeatedly about Linus; that his communication style is really pretty typical for a Scandinavian.
Re:Linus Torvalds defends his right to shame Linux kernel de... by jlgreco on Tuesday July 16, 2013 @02:00PM (#6053545)
Same. A (Finnish speaking) Finn I know likes to brag to me about this.
Re:Linus Torvalds defends his right to shame Linux kernel de... by claudius on Tuesday July 16, 2013 @02:01PM (#6053556)
…or as if he spent some time in Berlin. Really, nothing particularly rude/big/abusive/bullying.
Re:Linus Torvalds defends his right to shame Linux kernel de... by jeltz on Tuesday July 16, 2013 @02:03PM (#6053571)
As another Swede I would say he is acting rather Finnish. Though he would not be out of place in Sweden either, our countries are not that different.
Re:Linus Torvalds defends his right to shame Linux kernel de... by sp332 on Tuesday July 16, 2013 @01:55PM (#6053501)
Sorry to break it to you, but he was born in Helsinki. Edit: OK I guess this is more complicated than I thought :)
Re:Linus Torvalds defends his right to shame Linux kernel de... by jlgreco on Tuesday July 16, 2013 @01:57PM (#6053516)
True, though Linus was a part of the Swedish speaking minority in Finland.
Re:Linus Torvalds defends his right to shame Linux kernel de... by bjornsteffanson on Tuesday July 16, 2013 @02:00PM (#6053548)
Geographically, sure. Culturally - not at all.
Re:Linus Torvalds defends his right to shame Linux kernel de... by Ras_ on Thursday July 18, 2013 @07:26AM (#6062849)
Yes, I believe another Finnish Swede active in this scene is somewhat more culturally Swedish - Monty Widenius, founder of MySQL/MariaDB.

On the other hand Linus' father is a Member of the European Parliament for Swedish People's Party of Finland, and was until 2011 the party vice chairman. But he (Nils) has been quite relaxed about things like mandatory Swedish education, which most Finnish Swedes dearly cling on to.

Re:Linus Torvalds defends his right to shame Linux kernel de... by CleanedStar on Tuesday July 16, 2013 @02:15PM (#6053671)
> what professionalism means. It's less about the neckties and watercooler politics he imagines and more about treating your peers with basic respect and human dignity

What planet did you just descend from? And what are these "peers" that exist in our profession? In my profession I have a team lead who doles out work, with a manager over him, with a manager over him and so on. The basic structure is no different than that of a dictatorship.

What's this "basic respect and human dignity" you find in your corporation which you can't find on lkml? Steve Ballmer throwing a chair across the room when a developer says he's leaving because he is going to "fucking kill Google?" Who are we to look to for these examples of professionalism and basic respect and human dignity - Steve Jobs? Larry Ellison? Who is the one with the vivid imagination? I hope you never have to keep the network and desktops of a Wall Street trading floor running.

Back in 1999, when VC was handed out like candy and blockbuster IPOs happened every day and companies were desperate to hire even middling IT workers, I suppose a veneer of theoretical collegiality seemed to hang over dot-com's for a moment. When 2000 and 2001 rolled around, and a lord of the flies atmosphere appeared at these same startups, it was a different story.

Re:Linus Torvalds defends his right to shame Linux kernel de... by twerquie on Tuesday July 16, 2013 @03:01PM (#6054019)
> And what are these "peers" that exist in our profession?

Your peers are people you work with to achieve a common goal.

> I have a team lead who doles out work, with a manager over him, with a manager over him and so on. The basic structure is no different than that of a dictatorship.

The basic structure is also no different from a democracy. Or a large open-source project.

> What's this "basic respect and human dignity" you find in your corporation which you can't find on lkml?

I hope this doesn't come as a surprise to you, but you're not supposed to rage out and flame your peers. It shows a lack of self control. Those examples you gave of CEOs losing control are notorious for a reason.

> I hope you never have to keep the network and desktops of a Wall Street trading floor running.

Do those still exist? (serious question)

> What planet did you just descend from?

Regards,