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Re:Microsoft helped the NSA bypass encryption, new Snowden l... by Osmium on Friday July 12, 2013 @09:53AM (#6032564)
Not impossible, but some smart people have been looking, at least for Apple's FileVault 2:

http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2012/08/an_analysis_of...

Paper here:

http://eprint.iacr.org/2012/374.pdf

Currently, there seem to be three vectors:

1) Weak passwords

2) If you opt-in to store a recovery key with Apple

3) If attacker has physical access to machine, and machine is powered on (direct memory access via Thunderbolt or Firewire) (Edit: seems like this is not the case, see below)

But no backdoor has been found (yet!)

Re:Microsoft helped the NSA bypass encryption, new Snowden l... by gecko on Friday July 12, 2013 @10:31AM (#6032766)

    3) If attacker has physical access to machine, and
       machine is powered on (direct memory access via
       Thunderbolt or Firewire)
This may have changed, but turning on FileVault used to disable DMA in many situations (laptop had been suspended being a key one) until the user logged back in. Not that this isn't a vector, but it's actually a very narrow one; you basically need the person to already be logged in at the time you want to steal the keys.
Re:Microsoft helped the NSA bypass encryption, new Snowden l... by Osmium on Friday July 12, 2013 @10:39AM (#6032815)
Hmm, I didn't know that. It seems you may be right:

http://www.frameloss.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Lion-Mem...

Though apparently there was a company offering a commercial solution for getting FileVault passwords using this method so...

http://privacycast.com/filevault-vulnerability-how-to-protec...

There's also a really interesting pdf from Apple containing more details on FileVault 2:

http://training.apple.com/pdf/WP_FileVault2.pdf

which suggests turning on firmware passwords to prevent DMA.

Re:Microsoft helped the NSA bypass encryption, new Snowden l... by andrewgleave on Friday July 12, 2013 @12:24PM (#6033462)
Take a look at Alex Ionescu's "Ninja's and Harry Potter" talk from NoSuchCon this year [1].

He specifically mentions he could access the FileVault key of a machine by having physical access, and discovered two secret keys (KPPW and KPST) one of which is enabled when the input buffer is "SpecialisRevelio" [2].

It's a very interesting deck to read through.

[1] http://www.nosuchcon.org/talks/D1_02_Alex_Ninjas_and_Harry_P... [2] http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Specialis_Revelio

Re:Microsoft helped the NSA bypass encryption, new Snowden l... by Osmium on Friday July 12, 2013 @05:00PM (#6035170)
That's really very interesting, and quite concerning. I saw that talk was only presented in May. Any new info since then?
Re:Microsoft helped the NSA bypass encryption, new Snowden l... by blhack on Friday July 12, 2013 @12:27PM (#6033482)
Why not just a backdoor in the OS? I mean...if we're seriously considering that apple would put a backdoor into FileVault, why not just put one in the OS proper?

FileVault could be some hypothetical magic uncrackable encryption with a keyspace bigger than the known universe...and it would never matter if there was a backdoor in the OS.

Re:Microsoft helped the NSA bypass encryption, new Snowden l... by dmix on Friday July 12, 2013 @10:19AM (#6032689)
> 3) If attacker has physical access to machine, and machine is powered on (direct memory access via Thunderbolt or Firewire)

I'm curious if this could be addressed with software protections somehow? Something that triggers memory wipes and automatic shutdowns?

Re:Microsoft helped the NSA bypass encryption, new Snowden l... by sil3ntmac on Friday July 12, 2013 @10:50AM (#6032881)
FileVault 2 is supposed to be secure against this* when the machine is powered on and locked or sleeping.

* Source http://security.stackexchange.com/questions/18720/how-secure...

Re:Microsoft helped the NSA bypass encryption, new Snowden l... by dmix on Friday July 12, 2013 @11:24AM (#6033062)
Interesting. Apparently LUKS/dmcrypt on Linux is also protected from DMA attacks (firewire/thunderbolt devices).

> If you enable LUKS root, DMA attack mitigation is also enabled(boot.initrd.luks.mitigateDMAAttacks ). It consists of blacklisting firewire drivers.

Edit: still at risk of the "Evil Maid Attack" http://www.aspecrypt.com/evil_maid_attack.html

Re:Microsoft helped the NSA bypass encryption, new Snowden l... by anologwintermut on Friday July 12, 2013 @10:36AM (#6032796)
http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/architecture-and-tech...

Though that specifically obviously requires hardware.

Re:Microsoft helped the NSA bypass encryption, new Snowden l... by dmix on Friday July 12, 2013 @10:48AM (#6032868)
It seems that only protects against "pre-launch software" and BIOS level stuff. The scenario in question is for a live system where the disk is mounted and decrypted, with the OS running.