Asiana Airlines Boeing 777 crashes at SFO

Re:Asiana Airlines Boeing 777 crashes at SFO by jedbrown on Saturday July 06, 2013 @06:17PM (#6000265)

""" The majority of passengers who replied to the Safety Board’s questionnaire were carrying at least one piece of carry-on luggage. Only 25 passengers (6 percent) reported having no bags with them in the cabin. Of the 419 passengers who reported that they carried on bags, 208 (nearly 50 percent) reported attempting to remove a bag during their evacuation. The primary reason that passengers stated for grabbing their bags was for money, wallet, or credit cards (111 passengers). Other reasons included job items (65), keys (61), and medicines (51). Most passengers exited the airplane with their bags.

Passengers exiting with carry-on baggage were the most frequently cited obstruction to evacuation. Twenty-four of the 36 flight attendants who responded listed carry-on baggage as an obstruction. Overall, 37 percent of the passengers indicated that retrieving carry-on baggage slowed the evacuation; however, in five of the evacuations (cases 9, 16, 24, 27, and 32), a majority of passengers believed that the evacuation was slowed by carry-on baggage. Further, 70 passengers and 8 flight attendants reported arguments between passengers and flight attendants regarding luggage.

[...] The Safety Board concludes that passengers’ efforts to evacuate an airplane with their carry-on baggage continue to pose a problem for flight attendants and are a serious risk to a successful evacuation of an airplane. """

http://www.ntsb.gov/doclib/safetystudies/SS0001.pdf (page 66-68)

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Re:Asiana Airlines Boeing 777 crashes at SFO by jellicle on Saturday July 06, 2013 @08:12PM (#6000525)

It's an obvious tragedy of the commons problem. Everyone would get off fastest if they brought no bags. But taking YOUR bag only slows down debarking a tiny amount, and it saves you weeks of hassle. Clearly the rational choice is to bring your bag. But when everyone brings their bag, possibly half the flight dies due to smoke inhalation from not getting off the plane quickly. But even then, it's STILL the right choice to bring your bag. Your exit speed is determined by whether everyone else brings their bag, a choice which you cannot affect.

The people who brought their bags off the plane today have their clothes, laptops and passports tonight; they can go to work tomorrow. The people who didn't are locked up in a customs holding cell, wearing the same underwear, for a few days until someone can issue them a passport. They'll never get their bag back and the airline will, after filing dozens of forms, compensate them about $50 for it.

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Re:Asiana Airlines Boeing 777 crashes at SFO by sneak on Saturday July 06, 2013 @10:33PM (#6000822)

Electronic locks that lock all overhead compartments whenever the seatbelt sign is on, with clear LED indication and preflight explanation so people know their bags are inaccessible and simply don't try.

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Re:Asiana Airlines Boeing 777 crashes at SFO by jonknee on Saturday July 06, 2013 @11:26PM (#6000924)

Many of the bags look like ones that would be under a seat. That's the one I would snag too--laptop and camera.

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Re:Asiana Airlines Boeing 777 crashes at SFO by sneak on Sunday July 07, 2013 @01:21AM (#6001136)

The majority of handluggage is in overhead compartments, especially larger stuff. It's not a 100% solution but it's cheap and easy to implement.

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Re:Asiana Airlines Boeing 777 crashes at SFO by ars on Sunday July 07, 2013 @01:17AM (#6001129)

That would actually waste WAY WAY more time as each and every person will try to open the lock, and fail.

Then some of them will really fight with the lock refusing to leave.

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Re:Asiana Airlines Boeing 777 crashes at SFO by sneak on Sunday July 07, 2013 @01:25AM (#6001147)

Not if there's a giant LED-lit "LOCKED" next to the handle, which is explained by crew before take-off. Even if they ignored the crew, they'd see the lighted "LOCKED" next to/on the handle.

Mitigating against that exact misunderstanding was part of my suggestion - otherwise you could just lock them with no lights/explanation, but then you'd run into the problem you describe.

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Re:Asiana Airlines Boeing 777 crashes at SFO by pyre on Sunday July 07, 2013 @01:54AM (#6001195)

That doesn't stop people from panicking (e.g. "My stuff!") and attempting to break the lock. In the NTSB report, people were arguing with the flight crew over whether or not to leave their luggage during evacuation.

Edit: I'll add that I was in a retail store (employee) that was evacuated by police, due to an armed gunman. People were still worried about the office chair or shredder that they wanted to buy. An officer had to basically get up on a counter, and hold up his gun and badge and say, "Everyone out! Now!"

On the way out some guy was trying to ask me if we would be open later because he (apparently) really wanted to get this office chair he was looking at.

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Re:Asiana Airlines Boeing 777 crashes at SFO by ars on Sunday July 07, 2013 @02:38AM (#6001277)

And even with a locked message, each person will still try and open it anyway. (You've never disbelieved a sign and tried something for yourself? You've never said "I have to see/try that for myself, even though someone told you what was/did/will happen?)

It's human nature. You have to work with it, not against it.

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Re:Asiana Airlines Boeing 777 crashes at SFO by _delirium on Saturday July 06, 2013 @08:19PM (#6000537)

One obvious improvement, if your analysis is correct, is to apply some kind of more-sane treatment to undocumented immigrants who are undocumented due to an obviously anomalous situation, such as surviving a plane crash. If people really believe that the U.S. will treat them well if they do the right thing, they may be more inclined to do the right thing.

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Re:Asiana Airlines Boeing 777 crashes at SFO by jzwinck on Saturday July 06, 2013 @10:18PM (#6000780)

The US regulations already contain provisions for this. You needn't worry that the people who lost their passport in a plane crash will be treated inhumanely. They may be inconvenienced in terms of lost time, but at least they didn't die in a fire.

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Re:Asiana Airlines Boeing 777 crashes at SFO by randomknowledge on Saturday July 06, 2013 @10:39PM (#6000833)

I guess the take away is that you should keep your essentials on your person while flying. Those items list are all small enough to fit in pockets or unobtrusive bag. Having them ready sure make things go a lot smoother in an emergency situation.

I suppose the emergency info should mention that anything you absolutely can't leave needs to be kept on your person.

Of course most people will thing "aw it will never happen", but if they hear the same message every time they take off people will probably get in the habit of not leaving their wallets in their luggage.

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