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Re:The Demo by glurgh on Wednesday July 03, 2013 @10:28PM (#5988840)
Other than the fact that they are both demos and happened in SF (in different locations, Brooks hall has been closed for many years), they're almost entirely dissimilar.

One is a demonstration of new technologies, previously unseen by many in the audience. The other is the introduction of a new product integrating many existing technologies. You could buy an iPhone a few months after that introduction. Computers with mice didn't become generally available to consumers till 1984. You're either underestimating the impact of Engelbart's demo, overestimating the importance of the iPhone or both.

Re:The Demo by gfodor on Thursday July 04, 2013 @12:15AM (#5989120)
I'm going to disagree and say that Jobs' unveiling of the iPhone will be up there with The Demo in terms of watershed moments in computer, and indeed human history. It wasn't the iPhone per se, but what the iPhone represented and the clear inflection point it has proven to be for realizing much of the vision originally hatched by those at PARC.
Re:The Demo by cubancigar11 on Thursday July 04, 2013 @02:09AM (#5989377)
That is ridiculous. Please, have some imagination. In preparation of The Demo, just think about the algorithms that were discovered and technologies that were invented.

Unveiling of iPhone was a marketing gimmick. And please look outside America before talking about human history, and indeed computer.

I really don't want to sound rude but this kind of vanity gets to me.

Re:The Demo by paganel on Thursday July 04, 2013 @05:29AM (#5989872)
> And please look outside America before talking about human history, and indeed computer.

You're too harsh on the OP. As Doug Engelbart discovered himself at some point: "One of the basic things you soon learn is that after a certain degree of quantitative change, you almost invariably go into qualitative change." (http://www-sul.stanford.edu/depts/hasrg/histsci/ssvoral/enge...).

Before Apple put everything together for the initial version of the iPhone nobody else other than technology enthusiasts (or masochists) were using their mobile phones as windows into the world. Not 10 years have passed and now I can see 12-year kids chatting with their friends on their iPhone5s while I'm taking the tramway home, or 20-something lady-drivers checking their Facebook while they're waiting for the green light.

If it matters I live half a globe-away from the States, and while I do own an iPhone 4 I still fondly remember how I used to write Python scripts for a Nokia N73 that would somehow try to pair the images I was taking with said phone with the geo-coordinates recorded by an external GPS device, both of them (the GPS device and the phone) connected through bluetooth.

Re:The Demo by cones688 on Thursday July 04, 2013 @05:41AM (#5989907)
> "windows onto the world"

People were emailing each other and secure IM'ing in 1999 on BlackBerries, I think you forget there was "internet phones" before the iPhone in 2007. This wasn't some "geek machine" it was something every wallstreet, government employee and exec had.

Re:The Demo by gfodor on Thursday July 04, 2013 @02:18AM (#5989409)
So you're basically rude and provide no real argument.

You did happen to notice how much the world transformed after the iPhone came out along with the rest of us, didn't you? You do remember that to paraphrase Alan Kay it was a few inches short of someone finally realizing the Dynabook? (And you do know that the iPad came before the iPhone, likely from this very inspiration?)

I find it bizarre that you somehow conclude that saying the iPhone was a very transformative product for the world is somehow "vanity." Strange.

Re:The Demo by saraid216 on Thursday July 04, 2013 @03:29AM (#5989568)
> (And you do know that the iPad came before the iPhone, likely from this very inspiration?)

...er, what?

Re:The Demo by sbuk on Thursday July 04, 2013 @06:28AM (#5990001)
Internally at Apple the iPad was in development before the iPhone. The iPad is considerably closer to the Dynabook as a concept than the iPhone is.
Re:The Demo by cones688 on Thursday July 04, 2013 @05:25AM (#5989860)
> what the iPhone represented

A mish-mash of other technologies available on the market? I don't doubt that it had a an impact on technology but it wasn't some epiphany, just a good iteration.

I think you need to dedicate the next 1.40.53hrs of your day to watching The Mother of All Demo's, it truly is one of the most amazing human technological feats - to even conceive these things let alone manage to produce and develop them and then demonstrate to a large audience and record the whole thing still blows my mind. Pretty much everything you are doing today on your laptop harks back to Dougs boundless imagination and execution, he deserves total utmost respect - not comparison. There is none, let alone with a phone.

Re:The Demo by InclinedPlane on Thursday July 04, 2013 @05:33AM (#5989885)
I can see solid arguments for either viewpoint. The iPhone was certainly a substantial leap, but a lot of innovation was happening at the time in smartphones elsewhere and it was really just a matter of time before the advances and improvements made by Apple were duplicated by others. However, there is something which I think tips the balance toward the iPhone being a major breakthrough: the expansion of the smartphone market.

The iPhone brought a lot of new smartphone users into the market, and it brought an even larger injection of cash into the market. That, in turn, facilitated a massive acceleration of R&D into mobile device technology and software. And that acceleration will have a direct impact on something that is still in progress and hasn't happened yet: the majority of the population of the developing world gaining access to computing technology and the internet, which I believe will be one of the defining events of the 21st century.

Re:The Demo by mortehu on Thursday July 04, 2013 @12:26AM (#5989141)
I have some trouble seeing how Engelbart's demo wasn't just integrating many existing technologies. For example, live television had existed for decades, so teleconferencing would seem like a small leap. While Engelbart's team did independently[1] invent the mouse, Apple made the first consumer mouse, and by also inventing drag gestures, they didn't have to go with the frankly shitty UI suggested by Engelbart.

1. Telefunken was selling a mouse several weeks before this demo -- http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Auf-den-Spuren-der-de...

[This comment has been edited a couple of times]

Re:The Demo by glurgh on Thursday July 04, 2013 @12:56AM (#5989198)
The Engelbart demo is about as much about teleconferencing as the iPhone introduction is just about a nicer mobile phone.

And I think both the original and my reply were about the demos themselves not about the mouse specifically or Apple in general. My point was that a technology demo of a research prototype and a product introduction are radically different things. I suspect that Engelbart's demo itself must have been a very early, (the first?) large-scale, live demonstration of interactive computer technology. They had to borrow an Eidophor from NASA to do it, which gives an idea of how unusual it was for the time. It's not like they showed up and plugged a coax cable into the projection system of the convention hall. That's one, among many reasons why one of these things is The Demo and the other a demo.

Re:The Demo by mortehu on Thursday July 04, 2013 @01:54AM (#5989338)
> Engelbart's demo itself must have been a very early, (the first?) large-scale, live demonstration of interactive computer technology.

Teletypes had been commercially available for decades, and minicomputers (PDP-8) for about four years. It seems glass terminals started appearing only a year before this demo, though.

Re:The Demo by glurgh on Thursday July 04, 2013 @02:24AM (#5989423)
Have you watched the demo? Or looked up what an Eidophor is? This is pretty much the invention of the 'computer demo in front of a big, live audience'. I have no idea what teletypes have to do with any of this.
Re:The Demo by mortehu on Thursday July 04, 2013 @04:57AM (#5989788)
Obviously I haven't been understanding what you're tring to say. From your most recent comment, I think you're saying that the groundbreaking thing was showing a computer screen through an eidophor in order to demonstrate its functions live before a large audience.

With this in mind, I will claim that the iPhone demonstration is similar in that it's the first case of a phone being connected to a big screen projector to demonstrate its functions live before a large audience.