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Re:Russian Proton Rocket crashes Seconds after Launch by solomatov on Tuesday July 02, 2013 @08:59AM (#5977469)
Proton isn't the most reliable rocket. About 10% of all its launches are unsuccessful. However, it's one of the cheapest ways to deliver cargo to the space. It's even cheaper than current SpaceX offers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_heavy_lift_launch...) of course if a satellite isn't too expensive.
Re:Russian Proton Rocket crashes Seconds after Launch by simonh on Tuesday July 02, 2013 @10:02AM (#5977811)
Maybe I'm reading that table wrong, but it lists the cost of a Proton-M launch at $86m while for a Falcon-9 it's $56m, though Falcon-9 v1.1 is only slightly better on cost/kg to LEO. Still, the the numbers for Falcon heavy blow Proton away. Am I missing something?
Re:Russian Proton Rocket crashes Seconds after Launch by pvarangot on Tuesday July 02, 2013 @10:06AM (#5977844)
Yes, Falcon 9 v1.1 and Falcon Heavy have not yer launched. We will know their costs when they are reliably working and have been operating at market price for some years, all first launches have already been booked at special prices for early adopters.
Re:Russian Proton Rocket crashes Seconds after Launch by simonh on Tuesday July 02, 2013 @11:46AM (#5978586)
Fair enough, but SpaceX has already booking launches guaranteed at their quoted prices, so there's nothing hypothetical about them. Whether they can deliver reliably without going bust is perhaps more of an open question, which is fair enough, but they've certainly put their balance sheet and reputation where their mouth is.
Re:Russian Proton Rocket crashes Seconds after Launch by bathat on Wednesday July 03, 2013 @02:11AM (#5982777)
You are correct that, slightly re-stated, there's nothing hypothetical about the amount of money you have to give SpaceX to put your payload on a Falcon that you reserve today. But you missed his point.

We don't know what the failure rate of the Falcon will be, whereas we do know what the failure rate of a Proton is (~10%). Satellites are expensive and delivery is not guaranteed, so every launch provider always gives a discount to early customers who put their payload on one of the first few launches of a new system.

Pvarangot's point was that the price for booking a launch today is almost certainly less than, say, booking a launch after Falcon has had ten successful launches on its first ten attempts. If Falcon has Delta's failure rate, then SpaceX can charge a premium. If Falcon's failure rate is closer to Proton, they will have to underbid the Russians to get customers. We won't know until Falcon has a few launches under its belt. Saying they are booking launches at guaranteed prices today is true, but only gives a hint to what it will cost customers five years from now.

Re:Russian Proton Rocket crashes Seconds after Launch by mpr3 on Tuesday July 02, 2013 @09:29AM (#5977599)
If that's well known then I wonder if they've actually done an "expected value" of cargo lifted into space by these rockets. For example, 0.9valueofcargolifted - 0.1costofcargoandfallout
Re:Russian Proton Rocket crashes Seconds after Launch by cecilpl on Tuesday July 02, 2013 @09:55AM (#5977752)
Yes, many large businesses do some kind of expected value calculation when deciding what course of action to take.
Re:Russian Proton Rocket crashes Seconds after Launch by nawitus on Tuesday July 02, 2013 @09:26AM (#5977587)
That's interesting, I thought SpaceX was cheaper than even the Russian launch vehicles. By the way, are insurance costs taken into consideration? (Although the proper insurance rate might be difficult to estimate for SpaceX since they don't have that many launches behind them).
Re:Russian Proton Rocket crashes Seconds after Launch by leoedin on Tuesday July 02, 2013 @09:49AM (#5977709)
The cost of a SpaceX launch reflects not only manufacturing costs but also the cost of development. The cost of a Proton launch (and similarly for other low cost ICBM based Russian launchers) doesn't reflect the developmment cost because it was designed a long time ago and borne by the russian government. The true cost of a Proton launch is much higher than what a user would pay to International Launch Services.
Re:Russian Proton Rocket crashes Seconds after Launch by solomatov on Tuesday July 02, 2013 @10:43AM (#5978079)
The true cost is adequate because there was a very large number of total launches (around 400). What is the reason for launching a rocket if it leads to a loss.
Re:Russian Proton Rocket crashes Seconds after Launch by danmaz74 on Tuesday July 02, 2013 @03:37PM (#5980214)
The cost of a Proton launch reflects the fact that development costs were amortized long ago.
Re:Russian Proton Rocket crashes Seconds after Launch by reeses on Tuesday July 02, 2013 @09:49AM (#5977711)
Silly Internet person of irrelevant gender, insurance can be bought for anything. Actuaries will calculate the risk of not knowing as well.

Whether someone can afford the premiums and abide by the term and conditions presented is another matter.

Re:Russian Proton Rocket crashes Seconds after Launch by neurotech1 on Tuesday July 02, 2013 @02:05PM (#5979654)
Maybe thats a typo getting in somewhere. The Proton-M is reported at $85m per launch, vs a Falcon 9 v1.1 at $54m (75% payload of a Proton-M).

Soyuz is almost certainly more expensive per seat than a F9/Dragon Crewed version. 2 "passengers"(+ 1 pilot/commander) vs 5-7 passengers (+ "pilot"/commander).