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Re:“Whistleblower welcome in China” by tptacek on Saturday June 15, 2013 @12:12PM (#5885351)
Where by "economically free" we include such freedoms as "ability to deploy child labor", "ability to pay workers below subsistence", "ability to create the equivalent of company towns", "ability to dump toxic waste into rivers", "ability to blot out the sun with airborne waste", and "availability of vast pool of rural poor workers". And by "free" we specifically ignore "can be imprisoned indefinitely for belonging to the wrong religion", and "police officers can arrest and sentence you to a year in prison without the involvement of a court or even a prosecutor".

Every time someone says something like "China is [or will soon be] freer than the US", what they're really saying is "I don't read, but I'm happy to divide the whole world into two sides: whoever supports my current biases, and whoever doesn't".

Re:“Whistleblower welcome in China” by clicks on Saturday June 15, 2013 @12:40PM (#5885457)
> Where by "economically free" we include such freedoms as "ability to deploy child labor", "ability to pay workers below subsistence", "ability to create the equivalent of company towns", "ability to dump toxic waste into rivers", "ability to blot out the sun with airborne waste", and "availability of vast pool of rural poor workers".

You can't deny that this is indirectly partly due to America's demand for cheap goods that China provides. Look, United States has already passed this stage -- we have had dark spots in our history too, with crimes among the most heinous in world history: slavery, genocide, child labor. We've mostly improved... and I expect China will improve as well as its populace becomes more learned and starts demanding more freedoms.

But at any rate. I have one question for you tptacek: don't you agree that the extent of child labor, improper wages, toxic dumps, etc. taking place in China would be considerably less if Americans conscientiously chose to not fund these operations by essentially doing business with them? In other words, isn't America -- and the people of America -- culpable of these crimes that you make note of to a non-zero degree?

Re:“Whistleblower welcome in China” by tptacek on Saturday June 15, 2013 @12:49PM (#5885499)
Sure. I just think China is much more culpable; they allow these actions as a considered and deliberate matter of public policy. I'm glad we agree that they're essentially criminal actions.
Re:“Whistleblower welcome in China” by thwest on Saturday June 15, 2013 @03:54PM (#5886106)
The US aggressively peruses "Free Trade" agreements on behalf of our manufacturing corporations, with the deliberate policy of only allowing tariff-free imports from nations who implement these criminal actions. (e.g. the NAFTA suit against California for banning that gasoline additive). Just trade policy would be opposite: large tariffs on countries who don't match our labor or environmental standards.

China is agreeing to play by the rules, but the US wrote the rules.

Re:“Whistleblower welcome in China” by tptacek on Saturday June 15, 2013 @04:13PM (#5886157)
Are you suggesting that if the US's trade rules were neutral --- neither punishing nor incentivizing child labor, pollution, abuses --- China would no longer be doing these things/
Re:“Whistleblower welcome in China” by chris_wot on Sunday June 16, 2013 @05:58AM (#5887988)
That's not what he was saying at all...
Re:“Whistleblower welcome in China” by gbog on Saturday June 15, 2013 @03:00PM (#5885945)
You mean polluting rivers is a deliberate public policy in China? You have some proofs, I hope.

If not, your claims are just in the same vein as those a century ago telling the world about how those evil (pagan) Chinese hated babies and dropped them in the bins.

Re:“Whistleblower welcome in China” by tptacek on Saturday June 15, 2013 @03:03PM (#5885958)
I can't tell whether you're snarkily agreeing with me or not, because female infanticide is in fact a significant problem in China.
Re:“Whistleblower welcome in China” by gbog on Saturday June 15, 2013 @09:48PM (#5887069)
Well, I'm not agreeing with you and other yellow peril things at all.

Was just trying to show you that since the dawn of time the "other" has been considered dangerous, evil, etc. by many people. And you reflect very well this mentality.

Re:“Whistleblower welcome in China” by newnewnew on Saturday June 15, 2013 @08:12PM (#5886747)
America kills 20%-30% of its children through abortion, including half of black children. How is this much different?
Re:“Whistleblower welcome in China” by verroq on Saturday June 15, 2013 @10:14PM (#5887141)
Because people get abortions for reasons other than "the child is the wrong sex".
Re:“Whistleblower welcome in China” by lionspaw on Saturday June 15, 2013 @09:45PM (#5887055)
source?
Re:“Whistleblower welcome in China” by seanmcdirmid on Saturday June 15, 2013 @01:13PM (#5885577)
As Chinese start demanding more social and human right freedoms, the economic anything-goes freedoms are honestly going to be diminished. The situation right now is downright toxic, and it's not clear that many Chinese will live long enough to see the expected "improvements."

Also, libertarians shouldn't come here expecting a libertarian paradise. There is plenty of unfairness and economic non-freedom to go around.

Re:“Whistleblower welcome in China” by varjag on Saturday June 15, 2013 @03:42PM (#5886077)
nod

I think every idealist embracing that "corrupt West" and "noble savage" outlook on cultures should spend a year or two living in one of many shitholes of the world. It could bring some perspective.