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Re:Stop Watching Us Gathers Over 100,000 signatures to fight... by enraged_camel on Thursday June 13, 2013 @06:34PM (#5877049)
I know cynicism is not very productive, but I have never understood the point of petitions like this. Surely people know they are useless unless backed up by billions of dollars of funding?
Re:Stop Watching Us Gathers Over 100,000 signatures to fight... by sinak on Thursday June 13, 2013 @07:08PM (#5877224)
Just to clarify - this is not simply a petition. We're using a script that the late Aaron Swartz wrote to deliver emails directly to Congress via the contact us pages on legislator's websites. That means there'll be hundreds of thousands of emails delivered to Congress in the coming days.

It's amazing how practical some of the things that Aaron worked on are.

Re:Stop Watching Us Gathers Over 100,000 signatures to fight... by brk on Thursday June 13, 2013 @07:38PM (#5877374)
So then, it's easy for them to have a consistent block of text to filter on?

Is there any data that sending template emails works? It seems like its too easy to write off as people investing minimal effort, and not sending a unique message.

I honestly don't know,, but this does not feel 'effective' to me.

Re:Stop Watching Us Gathers Over 100,000 signatures to fight... by deepblueocean on Thursday June 13, 2013 @09:33PM (#5877806)
I believe that the staffers of many elected representatives typically count the number of constituents who were agitated enough even to send a form letter.

Think of it like a poll. Would you make the claim that politicians are willing to write off people who respond to polls just because they all answer the same question or the question isn't somehow the "right" one? Probably not.

Of course, it's not a poll because people self-select. But even still, if the report to the representative says "this week, we had 37 letters about gun control and 43,742 about surveillance", well, it's clear what the politician wants to say that he or she is doing something about when he or she next sees a reporter.

Re:Stop Watching Us Gathers Over 100,000 signatures to fight... by Aloisius on Thursday June 13, 2013 @10:04PM (#5877892)
Yet a phone call that takes a staffer's actual time probably is 1000x more effective than a form email that are easily ignored because it requires so little effort to actually generate.

If the most you can be bothered with is typing in your name and hitting send, why would any Congress member even believe you'll bother to vote in the next election? Or donate? Or convince other people to vote for their opponent?

Re:Stop Watching Us Gathers Over 100,000 signatures to fight... by marshray on Thursday June 13, 2013 @08:52PM (#5877702)
So have you written your own personalized emails then?
Re:Stop Watching Us Gathers Over 100,000 signatures to fight... by MarcParadise on Thursday June 13, 2013 @10:04PM (#5877894)
I have. I got a form letter in response.

There's some irony there.

Re:Stop Watching Us Gathers Over 100,000 signatures to fight... by brk on Friday June 14, 2013 @07:38AM (#5879326)
My experience as well, but at least I wrote a unique email.
Re:Stop Watching Us Gathers Over 100,000 signatures to fight... by mercurial on Friday June 14, 2013 @08:40AM (#5879545)
> Just to clarify - this is not simply a petition. We're using a script that the late Aaron Swartz wrote to deliver emails directly to Congress via the contact us pages on legislator's websites. That means there'll be hundreds of thousands of emails delivered to Congress in the coming days.

> It's amazing how practical some of the things that Aaron worked on are.

I predict such large-spectrum email delivery will:

- either arrive to the designated inbox, and get ignored

- or get stopped by a spam filter

If you want something to happen, at least write a personalized email, or better, call. It's more difficult to answer calls with a form letter.

Re:Stop Watching Us Gathers Over 100,000 signatures to fight... by paddy_m on Friday June 14, 2013 @04:13AM (#5878838)
It would be great to have a program that does the same thing for telephone calls. A web app that let's you record a message, that is then called into a representatives phone lines.

I'm Paddy Mullen, and instead of donating $50 to your campaign, I donated it to the EFF. I did this because you ignore the rights of the citizens and haven't held the NSA responsible for the infringements on privacy.

Let the staffers get 100s - 1000s of calls that way.

Re:Stop Watching Us Gathers Over 100,000 signatures to fight... by cpa on Friday June 14, 2013 @04:41AM (#5878913)
I'm not sure it's a good thing to do. Because this can happen: https://christianengstrom.wordpress.com/2013/03/08/european-...
Re:Stop Watching Us Gathers Over 100,000 signatures to fight... by flyinRyan on Friday June 14, 2013 @09:58AM (#5879918)
So as the GP said; this is all a big waste of time.
Re:Stop Watching Us Gathers Over 100,000 signatures to fight... by tn13 on Thursday June 13, 2013 @09:40PM (#5877826)
And how is that supposed to help?
Re:Stop Watching Us Gathers Over 100,000 signatures to fight... by csense on Thursday June 13, 2013 @06:52PM (#5877141)
> useless

Not to the NSA! With no effort at all, they've gathered the names of 100,000 subversives to put on a secret watch list!

(I hope I'm kidding.)

Re:Stop Watching Us Gathers Over 100,000 signatures to fight... by iguana on Thursday June 13, 2013 @07:37PM (#5877372)
I hesitated signing it for a good 5 minutes because I didn't want my name on the list of subversives, but then realized that since they monitor everything, I was already on the list.

Oh well, I'll let you guys know how good the food is in the secret prisons.

Re:Stop Watching Us Gathers Over 100,000 signatures to fight... by stox on Friday June 14, 2013 @12:00AM (#5878196)
I made the subversive list, I kid you not, at the age of 12. Needless to say, I stopped caring long long ago. Didn't find out about it until years later, when I was silly enough to think about enlisting in the Navy's Nuclear Propulsion School.
Re:Stop Watching Us Gathers Over 100,000 signatures to fight... by brokenparser on Friday June 14, 2013 @02:43AM (#5878593)
On the subversive list years before it was cool. Dude, you are the real hipster.
Re:Stop Watching Us Gathers Over 100,000 signatures to fight... by dredmorbius on Friday June 14, 2013 @05:33AM (#5879040)
Please tell me you've shared that story somewhere.
Re:Stop Watching Us Gathers Over 100,000 signatures to fight... by stox on Friday June 14, 2013 @01:49PM (#5881284)
Trust me, everyone who knows me has heard the story. But you do make a point, I should write it up and put it up on a website to educate others as to some of the abuses that have been occurring for so long.
Re:Stop Watching Us Gathers Over 100,000 signatures to fight... by a3n on Thursday June 13, 2013 @07:45PM (#5877409)
I think you'll be proud to tell your grandchildren that you were on the list of subversives.
Re:Stop Watching Us Gathers Over 100,000 signatures to fight... by korethr on Thursday June 13, 2013 @07:09PM (#5877229)
I hope you're kidding too. However, the cynic in me suspects that most of the signatories to the petition might already have been identified by the likes of PRISM as potential subversives and put on a secret watch list. This petition is probably just a confirmation of the majority of the names on that list.
Re:Stop Watching Us Gathers Over 100,000 signatures to fight... by Bill_Dimm on Thursday June 13, 2013 @08:34PM (#5877628)
This petition is probably just a confirmation of the majority of the names on that list

It's far worse than "just confirmation." If the NSA is training a machine learning algorithm to identify subversives based on various features/activities of those people, they need a set of labeled (i.e. subversive = yes/no) training data for the algorithm to learn from. They now have 100,000 extra training samples to help the machine learning algorithm better tune its ability to identify subversives. So, not only have the 100,000 people moved from the "probably subversive" to "known subversive" column, but the NSA is better able to predict subversiveness for all of the people that didn't sign the petition by comparing their features/activities to those that did.

Re:Stop Watching Us Gathers Over 100,000 signatures to fight... by DennisP on Thursday June 13, 2013 @09:55PM (#5877868)
That's a perspective I hadn't thought of, and will try to apply to other situations.

On the other hand, if the 100,000 people who already signed have now identified me as a subversive, I'd better go ahead and sign, in the hopes that it will maximize the odds of reigning in the NSA before they come get me.

Re:Stop Watching Us Gathers Over 100,000 signatures to fight... by Gaggleduck on Thursday June 13, 2013 @08:52PM (#5877701)
Re:Stop Watching Us Gathers Over 100,000 signatures to fight... by binarycrusader on Thursday June 13, 2013 @07:38PM (#5877377)
Welcome to the new era of McCarthyism.
Re:Stop Watching Us Gathers Over 100,000 signatures to fight... by redblacktree on Thursday June 13, 2013 @09:39PM (#5877823)
Where privacy is the enemy? Really?
Re:Stop Watching Us Gathers Over 100,000 signatures to fight... by binarycrusader on Friday June 14, 2013 @01:45AM (#5878461)
I was referring to how in the McCarthy era, people were persecuted for mere association with any sort of "unpatriotic" activity or organization.

That's a dark place to which I hope we never return.

Re:Stop Watching Us Gathers Over 100,000 signatures to fight... by drivebyacct2 on Thursday June 13, 2013 @08:53PM (#5877706)
A secret watch list? Holy shit, I wonder if they constantly surveil people on that list. Oh wait.
Re:Stop Watching Us Gathers Over 100,000 signatures to fight... by redblacktree on Thursday June 13, 2013 @09:39PM (#5877822)
Hold on. Are you saying that being on the side of freedom, privacy and government transparency is now "subversive?" Where did America go?
Re:Stop Watching Us Gathers Over 100,000 signatures to fight... by lessnonymous on Thursday June 13, 2013 @10:44PM (#5877993)
The constitution used to be about restricting what the government could do. Now it's about restricting what the people can do.
Re:Stop Watching Us Gathers Over 100,000 signatures to fight... by nish1500 on Friday June 14, 2013 @05:27AM (#5879027)
"100,000 signatures .. um ... wow big number. We didn't know so many people didn't like it. Sorry guys ... you opened our eyes. Sorry, again. No more spying"

- NSA

Re:Stop Watching Us Gathers Over 100,000 signatures to fight... by gesman on Thursday June 13, 2013 @11:05PM (#5878050)
People want to feel "empowered" cheaply. Like signing a petition or sitting (i.e. demonstrating). It never worked but doing the same thing all over again and expecting the different result is a habit of the crowds.

Now go ahead - downvote my post - feel the power :)

Re:Stop Watching Us Gathers Over 100,000 signatures to fight... by davvolun on Friday June 14, 2013 @04:53PM (#5882431)
Of course, the idea that it's useless to try is guaranteed to accomplish nothing.
Re:Stop Watching Us Gathers Over 100,000 signatures to fight... by Ihmahr on Friday June 14, 2013 @03:16AM (#5878697)
In a democracy you should expect a lot of signatures to have an effect.
Re:Stop Watching Us Gathers Over 100,000 signatures to fight... by dredmorbius on Friday June 14, 2013 @06:17AM (#5879136)
You're assuming this is a democracy.