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Re:NSA leaker is a patriot, not a traitor by flyinRyan on Tuesday June 11, 2013 @04:05AM (#5860386)
>How much danger would it need to put us in for you to think it's a bad idea?

There is no number high enough to make me think getting rid of government secrecy is a bad idea. The reason is that there are other methods to deal with these kinds of problems. If other countries want to nuke us, it's probably a better idea to find out why they want to nuke us then to become a police state.

>What if what they're not telling us is that FISA collection orders and analysis has kept people from nuking Manhattan a half-dozen times?

What if they've also kept the big fight between Godzilla and King Kong from us? This is nonsense, they have not stopped anything like that. Pretty much everything terrorists have actually tried to do, they've succeed (or were foiled by their own incompetence). The cases where the government actually managed to "stop" a terror attack were very clear cases of entrapment. If they're actually out there like Jason Bourne saving the US in the last second all the time, why would they chose to show us clear cases of entrapment as their success stories?

But if you really believe they're keeping us safe, then I'd like to give you a great offer on my anti-Godzilla rock. Godzilla has not so much as inconvenienced me on the way to work since I have this rock. I'm willing to make you a great deal on it, $1B. That's less than you're paying for the other charade.

Re:NSA leaker is a patriot, not a traitor by CamperBob2 on Tuesday June 11, 2013 @08:57AM (#5861379)
If other countries want to nuke us, it's probably a better idea to find out why they want to nuke us

What will your next step be, when you learn that the answer to your question is "Religion"?

Re:NSA leaker is a patriot, not a traitor by flyinRyan on Tuesday June 11, 2013 @10:36AM (#5861989)
I'm confident that that will not be the answer. That and "hate us for our freedoms" are popular for war mongers because there is apparently no solution besides continuing to bomb them. But is it possible they have legitimate grievancences? Is it possible that they're human beings who are pissed off about something we're doing or have done?

The saddest part is, we appear to have learned literally nothing since our handling of native Americans. It's disgusting.

Re:NSA leaker is a patriot, not a traitor by Peaker on Tuesday June 11, 2013 @07:19PM (#5865385)
There are plenty of fundamentalists in the world for whom the reason is indeed religion.

You're engaging in wishful thinking.

Re:NSA leaker is a patriot, not a traitor by flyinRyan on Wednesday June 12, 2013 @07:00AM (#5867456)
This is what you believe, this is what people who benefit from you believing that are telling you but it's nonsense. There may be poor fundamentalists who would gladly kill for religion but they have no ability to act on it. Only the rich and powerful have that capability and they're also better educated.

If you truly believe there are a group of people for whom religion is enough to make them want to kill, then the solution would be education and financial investment. Middle class people make poor martyrs. The idea that the only thing that can be done is murder them is sickening.

Re:NSA leaker is a patriot, not a traitor by Peaker on Wednesday June 12, 2013 @07:48AM (#5867576)
There have been plenty of middle class martyrs.

There are many religious people who openly explain that freedom is evil, and everyone should convert to Islam or face death.

You're essentially claiming that I am brainwashed, and you know the real truth instead. I'd like to claim the opposite.

Re:NSA leaker is a patriot, not a traitor by CamperBob2 on Wednesday June 12, 2013 @09:48AM (#5868023)
I think he just hasn't been paying attention. ("Middle class martyrs" have if anything been the rule rather than the exception in many scenarios.)