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Re:Apollo Astronauts Didn't Need Heavy Boots by RiderOfGiraffes on Sunday April 26, 2009 @03:33AM (#579760)
Some time ago (and I really ought to spend some time trying to track down the original source) there was a questionaire in the UK. One question was

  "Does the Earth go around the Sun,
   or the Sun go around the Earth?"
The followup question was

  "How long does it take?"
Of those who got the first one right (remember that, they got it right) nearly 80% gave an answer on the followup that amount to "about a day."

I have a mental model of how this can happen. For ordinary people on the street, the Sun goes around the Earth and it takes about a day. That's what they see, that's what they experience, and to them, that's what matter. Moreover, using the Earth as your frame of reference, they're right.

However, it's been drilled into them as an unattached, unassociated, irrelevant-to-them "fact" that the Earth goes around the Sun. When presented with the first question, then, they parrot that answer, with no idea of what that actually means.

This doesn't, therefore, mean they're stupid. It just means that they have a mental model of the world that works perfectly well for them, and they've been confused by "facts" that have no use.

I'm not arguing it's good, or right, but at least it helps me understand how otherwise perfectly functional people can appear so stupid and irrational.

Re:Apollo Astronauts Didn't Need Heavy Boots by jhayes on Sunday April 26, 2009 @11:18AM (#580020)
Again with the visualizing of a pre-newtonian world, a few years ago a physics TA (now a lecturer) made some observations on his Q&A sessions with some 1st years in Cambridge- they didn't hold up too well either but then again, changing your mental model of how the world works is no easy task I guess.

http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0512158

"1.4 Heavier objects fall faster

The classic Aristotelian belief is that heavier objects fall faster than lighter objects. Surely three hundred years after Galileo showed otherwise, students no longer share this belief? Unfortunately, many do, but the belief shows up only in novel situations. Students know that if a stone and a cannonball fall, they should say that both objects hit the ground ‘at the same time’; if they have been carefully taught, they might even say ‘roughly at the same time’. They also know what to say about two objects sliding down an incline, that mass is irrelevant. However, when the problem includes the novel effect of rolling (yet more trouble with circular motion!), many students have no practiced Newtonian answer to quote, and reveal their gut-level Aristotelian belief. For example, in Problem 23, about objects rolling down a plane, some students reasoned that an object with a large moment of inertia, such as a disc, rolls faster than an object with a small moment of inertia, such as a solid sphere. Two students argued that ‘moment of inertia is analogous to mass, and heavier objects fall faster than lighter objects’! I could not agree with the analogy, but I admired its boldness.

The way that rehearsal hides this misconception reminds me of the theory of the English accent: that if you step on an Englishman’s toes in the middle of the night, he’ll shout at you in an American accent. On this view, the one true accent is American. An English accent is just an act, a mask dropped upon surprise. Similarly, the students’ response that ‘all objects fall at the same speed’ is carefully rehearsed. It falls away when we step on their toes by asking about it in a novel context, whereupon they reveal their true belief, that heavier objects fall faster.""

Re:Apollo Astronauts Didn't Need Heavy Boots by Herring on Monday April 27, 2009 @01:02AM (#580892)
Meeting a friend in a corridor, Wittgenstein said: “Tell me, why do people always say that it was natural for men to assume that the sun went around the earth rather than that the earth was rotating?” His friend said, “Well, obviously, because it just looks as if the sun is going around the earth.” To which the philosopher replied, “Well, what would it have looked like if it had looked as if the earth was rotating?”

—from Jumpers5, a play by Tom Stoppard.

Re:Apollo Astronauts Didn't Need Heavy Boots by RiderOfGiraffes on Tuesday April 28, 2009 @03:51AM (#582850)
Tom Stoppard is always a joy, but there are often points to be picked apart. Wittgenstein's friend's answer was simply wrong. The reason is that they both look the same, and the Earth feels stationary. By that observation people choose the model that feels more correct and relevant.
Re:Apollo Astronauts Didn't Need Heavy Boots by Herring on Friday May 01, 2009 @05:16AM (#588286)
I think it's valid to assume that this was before the (galilean) principle of relativity. Even today many (most?) people don't know that it's ok to choose either model.
Re:Apollo Astronauts Didn't Need Heavy Boots by smallhadron on Monday April 27, 2009 @01:42PM (#581707)
Neither of the answers is quite right, though. Ignoring the rest of the mass in the solar system, the answer is that they both orbit the center of their combined masses. This happens to be located somewhere inside the sun's volume, but definitely not at it's center. So neither goes around the other.

That the earth goes around the sun is a pretty good approximation of the actual phenomenon, sure, but the approximation, in it's wrongness, loses the power of the real answer to actually explain what's happening.

Pedantry perhaps, but If we want people to have a better model, let's make it the right one.

Re:Apollo Astronauts Didn't Need Heavy Boots by RiderOfGiraffes on Tuesday April 28, 2009 @03:48AM (#582847)
And let's have none of this Newtonian nonsense, let's all use GR in our everyday lives. Newtonian physics is clearly wrong, so if we want people to have a better model, let's make it the right one.

All models are wrong, some models are useful. The model that the Sun goes around the Earth is perfectly adequate for most people.

I'm not saying this is good, or that people shouldn't learn about things, but realising that other people have different priorities from mine was a big step in my life. For many people, their model is good enough.