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Re:Leaving Google’s silo: Alternatives to Gmail, Talk, Calen... by eggbrain on Tuesday May 21, 2013 @05:21PM (#5746927)
I've been using GMail since its inception, so I figured I'd try the authors first suggestion, FastMail to see how the competition was fairing.

The article mentions that FastMail operates both "free and paid tiers of service", so I figured I'd make a free account and poke around. But I've clicked and searched for five minutes now and found nothing except paid plans with a free trial. Am I missing something?

Also, the article mentions that it "exceeds" the features of Gmail, but where the hell are all the features listed? I see nothing on any of the pages except for features like "Reliability" and "Easy migration" which tell me nothing about how it compares to GMail in features.

If this is an example of the best "alternative" to a Google product then the competition has a LONG way to go.

Re:Leaving Google’s silo: Alternatives to Gmail, Talk, Calen... by masnick on Tuesday May 21, 2013 @05:29PM (#5746998)
The article is incorrect: there is no free tier but there is a 2 month free trial. https://www.fastmail.fm/action/signup/?type=personal&acc...

In terms of additional features:

- Support for Sieve scripts - LOVE this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sieve_(mail_filtering_language)

- Way faster loading time, snapper interface

- Lots more customizability (look at the display settings for an individual folder: https://files.app.net/1/79748/aXTHb4q16UPxgBvF2RCedd9jMSV2u4...)

- Some different interface features that I really like (your mileage may vary), like always showing starred messages on top for specific folders

There's lots more in terms of customizability and different weird configurations they allow you to do. They've done a pretty good job of hiding the complexity for non-power users, but it's still really accessible if you're willing to read through lots of preference screens.

There are some features FastMail does not have that Gmail does. The two big ones for me are undo send and composing in a new window (although you can just open the whole FastMail interface in a new tab and it only takes a second to load; opening Gmail in a new tab could take 10+ seconds in my experience). I use the FastMail web interface full time and am just as efficient, if not more, than I am with Gmail. The keyboard shortcuts are pretty much the same, so there wasn't even a learning curve.

Re:Leaving Google’s silo: Alternatives to Gmail, Talk, Calen... by brongondwana on Wednesday May 22, 2013 @01:22AM (#5749057)
Under the hood it's all Cyrus IMAPd server with a ton of customisations (seriously, it's a lot - it's kind of getting out of hand - I need to tidy some up and push them back upstream)

The code we run in production is all available to anyone who wants to play with it, though the usual caveats about "it's not particularly well tested for any configurations other than exactly the one we run" apply.

https://github.com/brong/cyrus-imapd/branches/fastmail

brong@prin:~/src/cyrus-imapd$ git log --oneline cmu/master..HEAD | wc -l 632

brong@prin:~/src/cyrus-imapd$ git diff cmu/master HEAD | diffstat | tail -n 1 149 files changed, 39060 insertions(+), 4314 deletions(-)

Re:Leaving Google’s silo: Alternatives to Gmail, Talk, Calen... by ValentineC on Tuesday May 21, 2013 @06:07PM (#5747250)
FastMail removed their Guest account tier a couple of months ago. [1] Existing accounts (I have one of those) were grandfathered in, though.

[1] http://blog.fastmail.fm/2012/10/18/changes-to-fastmail-servi...

Re:Leaving Google’s silo: Alternatives to Gmail, Talk, Calen... by alfiejohn_ on Tuesday May 21, 2013 @06:19PM (#5747339)
Undo send?

In order to do that, we would have to hold all outbound emails until a delay threshold was reached... I'm not sure if that's a good idea.

Re:Leaving Google’s silo: Alternatives to Gmail, Talk, Calen... by fiatpandas on Tuesday May 21, 2013 @08:13PM (#5747968)
What would make it a bad idea? Just delay sending it for a user-specified amount of time (I think Gmail does 5s, 10s, and 30s), then have the UI for undo-ing the send disappear after the time elapses
Re:Leaving Google’s silo: Alternatives to Gmail, Talk, Calen... by Tyr42 on Tuesday May 21, 2013 @06:35PM (#5747478)
It's about 10 seconds, and it's saved me when I realize I forgot to attach stuff more than once.
Re:Leaving Google’s silo: Alternatives to Gmail, Talk, Calen... by username111 on Tuesday May 21, 2013 @06:37PM (#5747489)
Gmail has it as an option (labs last I used gmail), that is the best way I think to do it.

I don't ever find a need to undo an email though.

I believe it was only for like 20-30 seconds as well that it offered undo.

Re:Leaving Google’s silo: Alternatives to Gmail, Talk, Calen... by pyre on Tuesday May 21, 2013 @10:16PM (#5748407)

  | Gmail has it as an option
Supposedly Gmail added this as an option because their infrastructure was setup in such a way that the delay was already there. They just made hooks so that you could cancel it before it was sent.
Re:Leaving Google’s silo: Alternatives to Gmail, Talk, Calen... by Intermernet on Wednesday May 22, 2013 @04:39AM (#5749539)
Any chance you could hunt down a reference for this? I regularly test email servers from my Gmail account (amongst others) and I've found that their outgoing messages hit my mail servers almost instantly.
Re:Leaving Google’s silo: Alternatives to Gmail, Talk, Calen... by zrail on Tuesday May 21, 2013 @05:53PM (#5747167)
Does Fastmail.FM have the equivalent of the "Archive" action in Gmail? Mail.app on OS X and on iPhone seem to play well with Archive and it's not something that I really want to give up.
Re:Leaving Google’s silo: Alternatives to Gmail, Talk, Calen... by masnick on Tuesday May 21, 2013 @06:03PM (#5747226)
YES! And Mail.app on OS X actually works better with FastMail's Archive than it ever did with Gmail's (in my experience).

Here's a screenshot from Mail.app: https://files.app.net/1/79773/aTOWGMJ-rQ2Js_Edg-CWLi5FsLEVYq...

I either never knew that existed when I tried Mail.app with Gmail or it didn't work. In any case, it works perfectly with FastMail's "Archive" folder.

Re:Leaving Google’s silo: Alternatives to Gmail, Talk, Calen... by jfb on Tuesday May 21, 2013 @06:04PM (#5747233)
No, and it's really annoying. I have an "Archive" mailbox in my Fastmail account, and Mail on both OS X and iOS recognize it as special (they give it the same "archive" icon as a GMail account), but don't override the 'delete' function. I haven't found a Radar for it, but I imagine that many of same have been closed as "works as designed".
Re:Leaving Google’s silo: Alternatives to Gmail, Talk, Calen... by brongondwana on Wednesday May 22, 2013 @01:18AM (#5749042)
Surely "Delete" is more "Move to Trash"?

In our web interface, there are two buttons - one moves to Trash, the other to the Archive folder.

Re:Leaving Google’s silo: Alternatives to Gmail, Talk, Calen... by jfb on Wednesday May 22, 2013 @07:10AM (#5749988)
I don't use webmail; I was referring to the way that iOS recoginizes GMail's "All Mail" and overrides the delete function.
Re:Leaving Google’s silo: Alternatives to Gmail, Talk, Calen... by eridius on Tuesday May 21, 2013 @06:18PM (#5747334)
Mail.app's "Archive" isn't the same as Gmail's. In Gmail, it just removes it from the current mailbox but leaves it in All Mail. Mail.app actually moves it to a specially-named IMAP folder.
Re:Leaving Google’s silo: Alternatives to Gmail, Talk, Calen... by kryptiskt on Tuesday May 21, 2013 @06:06PM (#5747240)
Yes, there is an archive button. There is a difference, mail in Fastmail is in traditional IMAP folders and don't use tags as folders, I assume that you just tell the mail client not to download the archive folder.
Re:Leaving Google’s silo: Alternatives to Gmail, Talk, Calen... by MatthewPhillips on Tuesday May 21, 2013 @06:05PM (#5747236)
Yes, it has Archive.
Re:Leaving Google’s silo: Alternatives to Gmail, Talk, Calen... by da_n on Tuesday May 21, 2013 @06:34PM (#5747473)
I've been using Fastmail for about 2 months now. I much prefer it overall, but it is incorrect to say it has all the features of Gmail. It has just about enough of the right features that I want though, so no real issues there. The interface is superior in my opinion, of course the lack of adverts is wonderful, about the only thing which really gets me scratching my head is the way they handle multiple credentials, it is mind-boggling how many options there are yet none of them seem to allow a third party client to send/receive email but not have access to the account settings, a very strange ommission or just very badly documented. So no, it is not perfect, but it is a fantastic Gmail replacement.
Re:Leaving Google’s silo: Alternatives to Gmail, Talk, Calen... by brongondwana on Wednesday May 22, 2013 @01:26AM (#5749065)
I've created a ticket in our bug tracker to fix that ommission if it's not available, or document how if it is! I wrote the initial one-time support many years ago, but I haven't worked on the authentication subsystem for a while now. Thanks for the suggestion.
Re:Leaving Google’s silo: Alternatives to Gmail, Talk, Calen... by da_n on Wednesday May 22, 2013 @06:51AM (#5749932)
That's great to hear, thank you!
Re:Leaving Google’s silo: Alternatives to Gmail, Talk, Calen... by MatthewPhillips on Tuesday May 21, 2013 @05:57PM (#5747189)
I use FastMail. For one FastMail offers email for your domain, which Gmail no longer does. FastMail has archiving, great search, and a superior interface. The Gmail interface is pretty bad IMO. It's cluttered with a lot of stuff that have nothing to do with email like:

1) A black navigation bar across the top that doesn't help with email.

2) 300px wide box across the top right dedicated to a social network no one uses (not email related).

3) A loading screen when the page first loads.

4) New mail compose window (no need for an explanation here).

5) Ads

Re:Leaving Google’s silo: Alternatives to Gmail, Talk, Calen... by dragonwriter on Tuesday May 21, 2013 @06:07PM (#5747247)
> I use FastMail. For one FastMail offers email for your domain, which Gmail no longer does.

I'm 100% certain Google lets you get Gmail for your domain. You have to pay for it (but you have to pay for FastMail), and you get other services alongside Gmail, but it certainly exists.

Re:Leaving Google’s silo: Alternatives to Gmail, Talk, Calen... by MatthewPhillips on Tuesday May 21, 2013 @06:21PM (#5747361)
Looks like you have to get a business account. Which is reasonably priced. So yeah, I was wrong, it's still possible to get it. Kind of a hack, but you can get it.
Re:Leaving Google’s silo: Alternatives to Gmail, Talk, Calen... by driverdan on Wednesday May 22, 2013 @10:45AM (#5751194)
Using Google Apps (which is cheaper than FM) is not a hack, it's designed to be used with your own domain.
Re:Leaving Google’s silo: Alternatives to Gmail, Talk, Calen... by subsection1h on Wednesday May 22, 2013 @05:06PM (#5753714)

    Using Google Apps (which is cheaper than FM)
I pay $15 per year for a FastMail family account,[1] which allows me to use my own domain. The account includes only 200MB of space, but that works for me because I delete email from the server so that the US government can't access it, which they can do without a warrant.[2]

[1] https://www.fastmail.fm/signup/family.html

[2] https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/11/when-will-our-email-be...

Re:Leaving Google’s silo: Alternatives to Gmail, Talk, Calen... by ValentineC on Tuesday May 21, 2013 @06:09PM (#5747268)
> For one FastMail offers email for your domain, which Gmail no longer does.

You're still able to get a free one-user Google Apps for Domains account by going through Google App Engine. [1] I've used it to get catchall email addresses for any new domains I've recently registered.

[1] http://lifehacker.com/5967336/use-google-app-engine-to-get-g...

Re:Leaving Google’s silo: Alternatives to Gmail, Talk, Calen... by FireBeyond on Tuesday May 21, 2013 @07:10PM (#5747693)
When I migrated back from Windows 8/Phone 8 to iOS, I looked at this - but this loophole, from everything I've read, has been closed for a few months now.
Re:Leaving Google’s silo: Alternatives to Gmail, Talk, Calen... by mquander on Tuesday May 21, 2013 @08:36PM (#5748048)
I did this two months ago.
Re:Leaving Google’s silo: Alternatives to Gmail, Talk, Calen... by vidarh on Wednesday May 22, 2013 @05:23AM (#5749654)
The "Minimalist" chrome extension helps with a lot of these (though not with the horrible new compose window)
Re:Leaving Google’s silo: Alternatives to Gmail, Talk, Calen... by fakeer on Tuesday May 21, 2013 @10:54PM (#5748566)
Yes, I agree the new interface is a killer(as in bad).

But Gmail/Google's ease of use is its USP. You can have chat in browser, GTalk, Adium, Android , Pidgin and all then synced to mail box.

You can have calendar everywhere, taks..you name it.

So, until some business - like FastMail, PoBox, come up with such close integration I don't think there's much sense to move other than privacy and paranoia. Because once outside you end up setting up a workflow dependent on very different services and worry which one is gonna break when and then look for sth else.

Re:Leaving Google’s silo: Alternatives to Gmail, Talk, Calen... by kenkinder on Tuesday May 21, 2013 @06:03PM (#5747222)
Hm, I thought it did. Perhaps it used to. Thanks for the correction.

In terms of features, Fastmail does not do a good job of advertising its features. Just sign up for an account and check out the settings page. Its filtering is quite powerful, there's a SOAP API, and you can do stuff like automatically sort mail into folders. Eg, you could do [email protected] and have it go into a "bestbuy" folder.

Re:Leaving Google’s silo: Alternatives to Gmail, Talk, Calen... by ineedtosleep on Tuesday May 21, 2013 @05:54PM (#5747173)
To clarify and to add onto what masnick wrote, the article _was_ right. The free tier was an option previously, but FastMail has recently dropped that tier in favor of a free trial and, I'm assuming, a lower tier that has a lower cost.

Any previous users of the free tier will still have their account for free, possibly until further notice, but there is no obvious indication that they'll just drop your free account (unless you're inactive for their specified time period).

I have two email accounts with Fastmail mostly because they were the only free email service that supported Yubikey, but aside from that feature, I would call them "just another email service."

Re:Leaving Google’s silo: Alternatives to Gmail, Talk, Calen... by lobster_johnson on Tuesday May 21, 2013 @10:25PM (#5748449)
An additional data point to the other commenters:

I switched to Fastmail a few months ago, and I am extremely happy with it. IMAP is much faster (especially search). I love the Sieve support and the domain hosting, and beyond that, Fastmail has all the features I need.

The only downside so far is that the spam filtering is not quite as good as Gmail's. Even spam identical to stuff I have marked as spam keeps reappearing. But it's not bad enough to be annoying.

Re:Leaving Google’s silo: Alternatives to Gmail, Talk, Calen... by a3n on Tuesday May 21, 2013 @05:44PM (#5747113)
There used to be a free tier, which was my first use of fastmail. At some point, possibly the Opera acquisition, the free tier went away.