Children of parents classified as “tiger” have worse grades, are more depressed

Re:Children of parents classified as “tiger” have worse grad... by gradstudent on Friday May 10, 2013 @12:28AM (#5684635)

Kids don't know jack. If a kid isn't good at maths, and their friends aren't good at maths, they conclude that maths is stupid and not worth doing. Adults know better which is why they need to push kids toward productive activities and away from unproductive ones. Which isn't to say they shouldn't be allowed leisure time to be kids. Simply that a guiding hand, and sometimes a forceful hand, is necessary.

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Re:Children of parents classified as “tiger” have worse grad... by jiggy2011 on Friday May 10, 2013 @01:12AM (#5684745)

But is it necessary to micromanage to that level? I mean , it's certainly preferable for your kid to study music than to do drugs but do you need to dictate the exact instrument they will play?

Or perhaps they aren't so interested in music and would prefer to use the time for some other constructive activity (say programming).

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Re:Children of parents classified as “tiger” have worse grad... by gradstudent on Friday May 10, 2013 @01:33AM (#5684796)

Music education makes you a better rounded human. IMO it should be mandatory in early development. Kids are fickle and shortsighted. Why even let them decide these kinds of things at an early age? As a grown adult a parent is obviously in a better position to choose. Expose them to music, math, programming -- all that good stuff!

Obviously you wouldn't take it to extremes and torture the kid but I have noticed a trend among Anglo parents to let their children make important decisions during their elementary years -- like what is and isn't a worthwhile pursuit. It then comes down to pure dumb luck whether the child is engaged in a worthwhile recreational activity or a dumb one.

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Re:Children of parents classified as “tiger” have worse grad... by eatitraw on Friday May 10, 2013 @06:44AM (#5685501)

Again, worthwhile - to whom? And again, you can apply the very same logic to (some) adults. Many people, actually, do this. That's why they ban drugs, for example. That's why they setup(or allow the setup of) censorship systems(china great firewall and many others). Some people are just too dumb to think.

This may sound irrelevant to the discussion, but it is not. What age is not early age? Parents always be more "grown"(their age number will always be bigger).

Coercion is killer of motivation: force kid to play violin, and he is likely to hate violin in the (near?) future.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't "expose" kids to music, math, programming and other great stuff, but I'm saying that you probably shouldn't force them.

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Re:Children of parents classified as “tiger” have worse grad... by gradstudent on Friday May 10, 2013 @07:44AM (#5685667)

IMO, you should parent your children until they go off to University. They live under your roof and need to follow your rules. If they do not follow your rules they need to argue their case in a rational adult manner and to your satisfaction. If they cannot and act like petulant children you need to treat them as such; i.e. tell them to shut the hell up and eat their dogfood.

I don't care that the same arguments could be applied to adults. Adults are grown individuals who by virtue of their age have earned their right to be bone-headed and make stupid choices. As a parent all you can do is try to instill in your children values that prevent them from turning into boneheads.

Clear enough?

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Re:Children of parents classified as “tiger” have worse grad... by jiggy2011 on Friday May 10, 2013 @08:25AM (#5685789)

Is the child being a "bonehead" if they decide they don't enjoy the violin and would prefer to play clarinet or percussion instead?

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Re:Children of parents classified as “tiger” have worse grad... by gradstudent on Friday May 10, 2013 @08:30AM (#5685805)

You're putting words in my mouth. I only argued in favour of mandatory exposure to a broad range of activities, including musical instruments. The precise instrument probably doesn't matter but. I would prefer e.g. a piano or clarinet over a guitar or drums but hey, whatever. Just learn some music theory!

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Re:Children of parents classified as “tiger” have worse grad... by jiggy2011 on Friday May 10, 2013 @09:24AM (#5686010)

You said that you agreed with the list, the list explicitly says "nothing apart from piano or violin".

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Re:Children of parents classified as “tiger” have worse grad... by gradstudent on Friday May 10, 2013 @12:29PM (#5687112)

I pretty much do? I definitely have some strong personal biases toward particular instruments and not others and I would push for those. Asking a kid to choose a music instrument yields a decision every bit as informed as rolling a dice. Why bother?

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Re:Children of parents classified as “tiger” have worse grad... by jiggy2011 on Friday May 10, 2013 @01:45PM (#5687616)

Surely the kid can choose an instrument on the basis of the one that they like the sound of or even what seems 'cool'. They will probably have more motivation to study something that they have chosen themselves even if it is for fairly superficial reasons.

It's not like there is an objective way to choose a "better" instrument anyway since half of the fun is playing with others who use different instruments.

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Re:Children of parents classified as “tiger” have worse grad... by gradstudent on Friday May 10, 2013 @08:01PM (#5689232)

So why not, as a parent, present a set of options that seem reasonable to you and have them choose amongst those? i.e. you can play one of e.g. {piano, violin, clarinet}. When the child is better informed, they can choose for themselves. Until that point comes though, asking children to make arbitrary choices, particularly ones that affect their development, seems silly to me.

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Re:Children of parents classified as “tiger” have worse grad... by jiggy2011 on Friday May 10, 2013 @08:18PM (#5689277)

Surely the choice is basically arbitrary anyway?

Why would it affect their development if they picked say a trumpet, guitar or flute instead? They can always pick up a different instrument later.

It would be like if a kid wanted to learn python and you said "no! you must learn Java instead".

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Re:Children of parents classified as “tiger” have worse grad... by gradstudent on Friday May 10, 2013 @09:50PM (#5689444)

Python and Java are equivalent in the sense that both a Turing Complete. Is there a similar equivalence between all musical instruments which makes choosing one over another a purely arbitrary decision? I don't know but I suspect not. A pair of bongos seems to have much less to offer as an instructional vehicle for learning about music than, say, a piano.

EDIT: Setting aside the above argument for a second, there are practical considerations too that make the choice of musical instrument a non-arbitrary decision. For example: the cost of the instrument, its portability (important if the band decides to tour) and of course the availability of instruction.

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Re:Children of parents classified as “tiger” have worse grad... by eatitraw on Friday May 10, 2013 @01:40PM (#5687586)

> Asking a kid to choose a music instrument yields a decision every bit as informed as rolling a dice.

Except that is his own decision.

> Why bother?

Because a kid is a separate person, not an extension of your personality.

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Re:Children of parents classified as “tiger” have worse grad... by gradstudent on Friday May 10, 2013 @08:10PM (#5689260)

I don't know if your comment is a troll or if you're simply dim. I assume troll. Still, I'll bite:

The relationship between a parent and child is not a democratic one. As a parent you have a responsibility to make choices for your child until they can make them for themselves. I do not agree with letting kids decide which developmental activities they will or will not partake in or how they will do so. Is that clear enough for you, sunshine?

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