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Re:Why Being Smart Won't Get You Laid by banned_man on Saturday April 18, 2009 @12:02AM (#568032)
You're blaming evolution for womens' generally execrable tastes in men, but the source of the problem is likely cultural and psychological.

A large proportion of American women have been raised with an unspoken and often subliminal belief that sex is filthy, painful and degrading. This association is formed at a young age and most women are not aware that they have it, but it leads them to become attracted to men who are boorish, stupid, and threatening, rather than the intelligent and decent guys. Often, they are actually completely incapable of being sexually attracted to men who don't threaten and degrade them on, at the least, a subconscious level. This is what's at hand in the case of "you're a nice guy, but I'm sorry, I'm just attracted to you. I really wish I was, but I'm not".

This doesn't describe the majority of women or relationships, but it does describe nearly all of the sexually "loud" women. It seems paradoxical, but promiscuous women almost always have this subconscious distaste for sex, while relatively chaste women often have only a trace of it.

Re:Why Being Smart Won't Get You Laid by bokonist on Saturday April 18, 2009 @01:46AM (#568105)
The generally chaste girls are the same way, they still go for the strong guy over the "nice" guy. Girls that have been taught all their life to go for the nice guy, still find themselves attracted to the bad boy. The evolutionary/genetic explanation seems to fit my observations the best.

I actually think men get some blame for the "girls falling for aholes" problem. I think too many quality men listened to their mothers and school teachers, who said the key is to be a nice guy. The assholes never listened, and learned on the street to win girls via strength. Thus only the assholes act strong and get the girl, while the nerds lose out. The solution is that the good men need to grow a backbone. Then women will be able to find men who they are both attracted to and are good partners.

Re:Why Being Smart Won't Get You Laid by HSO on Saturday April 18, 2009 @03:03PM (#568597)
"they still go for the strong guy over the "nice" guy"

The antonym to strong is weak, not nice. I think people often forget that girls, particularly sane and intelligent ones, do not reject the prototypical "nice guy" because he is nice but because he is a pushover. That is, weak. You can be strong and nice. In fact, I think the strongest ones usually are "nice" or considerate because they can afford to, whereas at least where I'm moving, being an asshole or abrasive is a sign of weakness.

Re:Why Being Smart Won't Get You Laid by joetrumpet on Saturday April 18, 2009 @05:47PM (#568783)
He didn't mean antonym, which is why he mentioned at the end girls could then find both a nice and strong guy. In other words, it's less likely for nice guys to have the trait, but not impossible: they don't have it because they didn't attempt it since they simply listened to girls who didn't know (or weren't willing to admit) what they wanted.

In my experience, girls do want first and foremost an alpha male, and being a nice guy on top of that makes it even better. It's just not a necessity so the jerks can succeed without that quality, whereas the nice guys can't succeed without "dominance."

Re:Why Being Smart Won't Get You Laid by banned_man on Sunday April 19, 2009 @04:13PM (#569740)
So your argument is that women don't have shitty, infantile tastes so much as shitty, infantile priorities, then?
Re:Why Being Smart Won't Get You Laid by joetrumpet on Sunday April 19, 2009 @04:49PM (#569784)
It came about for evolutionary purposes, I'm sure, and the magnitude of their influence is quite debatable, and varies greatly from person to person. But do you believe status is not a factor in the eyes of most girls (this is, of course, simply a generalization)?

I'm sure you have friends who you would consider incredibly nice, but very shy, guys who never could get a girlfriend, and plenty of jerky, but confident, guys who you wonder why girls would date. Confident guys, even when not nice, just seem to win out over really nice, but not at all confident, guys. Guys with both win out over both. Whether or not it's a bad thing is your call.

(I'm not arguing guys are above their primitive desires: not by any means, it's just not the focus of this discussion.)

Re:Why Being Smart Won't Get You Laid by rdouble on Sunday April 19, 2009 @04:17PM (#569746)
So your argument is that women don't have shitty, infantile tastes so much as shitty, infantile priorities, then?

I guess now we know what time_management's new nickname is...

Re:Why Being Smart Won't Get You Laid by bokonist on Saturday April 18, 2009 @05:11PM (#568739)
I agree. I put the word nice in quotes, because I meant a specific type of "nice" guy - the nice, weak guy who wonders why the girls do not like him.
Re:Why Being Smart Won't Get You Laid by banned_man on Saturday April 18, 2009 @10:57AM (#568354)
There's a difference between being physically strong, having a backbone as you put it, and being a badboy. There are extremely muscular men who are very nice people, and there's also a huge middle ground (into which most men fall) between being a boorish badboy and a spineless pansy.

If a woman has a preference for muscular men, or skinny hipsters, or even fat men, that's fine. We all have our physical preferences. And the fact that women want to date men with enough spine to have meaningful character is a good thing. However, women who are attracted to loud, boorish, and stupid badboys are utter garbage.

The attraction to badboys is not aesthetic; many badboys are out of shape and ugly. I think the appeal of the badboy is that it provides release from the pressure that is put on women to "marry up". It's not looked down upon for a man to marry a woman less ambitious and intelligent than he is, as long as she's good on her own merits (e.g. if he's a Wall Street quant with a 155 IQ, and she's in a lifestyle career and has a 130 IQ, that's fine, because she's still a smart woman who can hold her own in intelligent conversation). Women, however, are expected to marry men with at least the same level of earning potential and intelligence, because of a lingering concern with gender roles and the expectation that the man will be equal or dominant. This obviously places a lot of pressure on high-power women. The appeal of the badboy is that, although he's virtually never intelligent or ambitious, he's dominant on account of his sheer arrogance and narcissism, but at the same time worthless enough that he can be flippantly discarded. This enables the woman to enter a relationship where she takes a submissive role, but one that has an "off switch"; she can leave without pain, since it's unlikely that she'll form an emotional attachment to such a useless and defective man.

[*Edited for clarity @ 12:26]

Re:Why Being Smart Won't Get You Laid by Eliezer on Saturday April 18, 2009 @01:10AM (#568081)
Oh? And why doesn't the same conditioning work on men when it's tried on men?
Re:Why Being Smart Won't Get You Laid by banned_man on Saturday April 18, 2009 @11:10AM (#568367)
I think there are a lot of men who have the same complex. There are a lot of men who are attracted to vapid and bitchy women-- the popular bubbly/slutty girl. They have a similar mindset: sex is an embarrassing, dissatisfying, and stupid activity in their worldview, and they seek out the sorts of women who are likely to confirm their nightmarish vision.
Re:Why Being Smart Won't Get You Laid by aswanson on Saturday April 18, 2009 @01:01PM (#568488)
sex is an embarrassing, dissatisfying, and stupid activity in their worldview, and they seek out the sorts of women who are likely to confirm their nightmarish vision.

I don't think we need an HN poll on this to disconfirm. The mindset of most men chasing sex seems to be based on the fact that it feels very good. Period. No nightmares needed.

Re:Why Being Smart Won't Get You Laid by banned_man on Saturday April 18, 2009 @01:30PM (#568515)
For the loser men who chase bubbly/slutty girls, the most common sex act is being rejected. I wouldn't imagine that this feels good.