We are on the internet, most of the time we have no idea which genre you are. Any women will get the same treatment as a men. I understand the issue in "real life" and it must be really awful to have to live that. However the internet should be considered safe for them and for me this action just give them a reason to doubt that they are accepted here too. Giving them the opportunity to hide their code doesn't solve any issue, it just create more issue. We could easily take any argument agaisn't code folding or commit rebase in version control and they would fit perfectly here.
You can't solve anything by hiding it.
EDIT:
Do you think that by removing every girl in engineering classrooms and giving them a private teacher that would help too? It's the same on the internet. Show them that they can be accepted, not that they should be separated.
The Ada Initiative is a destructive and notorious concern-troll organization that is reviled by many feminists of both genders. They hurt all real initiatives for resolving inequality and bias in technology. Supporting them is destructive.
http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/did-feminists-cancel-violet...
...is one good example of their concern-trolling.
They dress up their own sex-negative bullshit in feminist clothing and use it to censor and attack people who do not engage in discrimination or sexism in any way whatsoever, based solely on their own personal agendas.
It's repugnant to every single feminist (of any gender) that I've spoken to familiar with these events.
As far as I can tell, it seems to me to be the outgrowth of various personality disorders possessed by Valerie Aurora, the founder of the Ada Initiative. It serves as a convenient venue for her to attack others under the guise of promoting equal rights. It appears that she only supports equal rights as long as you are presenting exclusively on topics that she approves of.
http://adainitiative.org/2012/09/when-sex-and-porn-are-on-to... (This post predates the BSides incident by 5 months.)
And, about BSides:
http://adainitiative.org/2013/02/keeping-it-on-topic-the-pro...
http://adainitiative.org/2013/03/clarification-on-the-ada-in...
That doesn't really hold up their argument of sexualized environments in tech being inherently hostile to women participating, does it?
Anyone who examines this can see that this is simply a personal censorship crusade by Ms. Aurora, presumably as a result of her own sex-related trauma(s) and/or upbringing. (Google her and her father for her own account of it— it's not ad hominem.)[1]
Just because her psyche has been damaged does not mean she has the right to attempt to censor others who are not participating in discriminatory behavior. The whole thing about "exploit" in the title being a synonym for rape (as in exploiting a system without the owner's consent) illustrates how ridiculous her flimsy argument against it was and is.
This sort of concern-trolling makes women in tech appear to be hard to work with or require special handling/censorship considerations, and is actively harmful to the struggle for gender equality. It has absolutely no place whatsoever at a tech conference.
My hope is that people see these statements for what they are: disgusting personal attacks.
What gave you the impression that I was attacking her?
We, as men, must stand up and start knocking the entitlement out of those who refuse to recognize their privilege.
I don't know if that's the case in the place you are living right now but, if you think that being a boy or a girl its an advantage then you are part of that problem..
Boys will always be boys, ignore them and move on.
Last year a man named Geordie Tait posted an article called "To My Someday Daughter"[1]. It's quite long, but definitely worth reading. The context is gaming, but the central thesis is sexism. One quote from the article that really opened my eyes to how radically different men and women view the world comes from section 7 of the article. It's a quote by Gavin de Becker, and it says
"Men and women live in different worlds. At core, men are afraid women will laugh at them, while at core, women are afraid men will kill them."
And according to my girlfriend, this is not even the slightest bit exaggerated.
[1]: http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/misc/22786_To_My_Someday_...
The locally-defined concept of "male privilege" is quite possibly the least productive gender generalization to use in a conversation about gender equality.
This -- along with redefinitions of vocabulary to justify offense (see the comment about 'female' being offensive), and truisms that assert that any opposition to preferred policy is opposition to gender equality (see the reference to Lewis's law, or your own murder quote), are why these conversations are so pointlessly and ridiculously laden in rhetorical nonsense as to be useless.
> "Men and women live in different worlds. At core, men are afraid women will laugh at them, while at core, women are afraid men will kill them." And according to my girlfriend, this is not even the slightest bit exaggerated.
According to my wife, this is ridiculous and your girlfriend should adopt a more fact-based view of the world.
I looked it up. From 2000 to 2010, there were 128,971 male victims of murder in the US. There were 35,777 female victims.
http://projects.wsj.com/murderdata
To use your own rhetorical approach: if you disagree with me, "then I don't really know what to say". (sarcasm intended).
Well, let's clear it up then: "Male privilege refers to the social theory that men have unearned social, economic, and political advantages or rights that are granted to them solely on the basis of their sex, and which are usually denied to women."
It's actually a fairly useful generalization, and most understand what's implied by the use of the term. Of course the real problem isn't the use of rhetoric, it's the outright dismissal of the argument because rhetoric or faux outrage was used to make a point (or, as in my original comment, _real_ outrage).
I'm sorry to say, but we're past the time to be calm, cool, and collected. It's time to get angry, and it's time to put and end to gender inequality. Especially in tech, where we claim to hold ourselves to a higher moral standard.
The useful part is "... which are usually denied to women". The rest is just divisive stereotyping.
> It's actually a fairly useful generalization, and most understand what's implied by the use of the term.
Useful how, exactly? Other than stoking the flames of online discourse, and writing off viewpoints by using "privilege" as a rhetorical bat, I don't see much that can be usefully garnered by pulling the trigger on that particular weapon.
> It's time to get angry, and it's time to put and end to gender inequality. Especially in tech, where we claim to hold ourselves to a higher moral standard.
As far as I can tell, you're getting angry at the wrong people, for the wrong reasons.
You really think the tech industry is responsible for clueless mouth breathers telling your daughters that technology is 'boy stuff'?
I'd look at the educational system and the magazine rack at the supermarket. By the time someone gets to the technology industry, they've already been subjected to a lifetime of indoctrination and have missed out on critical educational opportunities. We're not paid to be educators or social crusaders; we're here to write software, design hardware, and ship products.
We do need to have access to better candidates, and one way to do that is by broadening the pool to draw from, but divisive adults playing at identity politics won't help with that problem.
As a two word phrase which everyone understands to mean the social theory that men have unearned social, economic, and political advantages or rights that are granted to them solely on the basis of their sex, and which are usually denied to women.
> As far as I can tell, you're getting angry at the wrong people, for the wrong reasons.
>You really think the tech industry is responsible for clueless mouth breathers telling your daughters that technology is 'boy stuff'?
Directly no, but by saying it's not our job to deal with the problem, you're just as culpable. So long as there are people in this industry, or any other, who refuse to address gender issues because it's not our job, or there's nothing I can do about it, then those are the people I should be getting angry at. By refusing to acknowledge the problem and addressing it directly, we allow the problem to continue.
As an industry that embrases diversity (gender; racial; social) but suffers from a lack of it, regardless of blame, it's on us to stand up to society and find solutions. We should be social crusaders. By being a members of the society in which the problem exists, it _is_ our responsibility to work to correct it.
My job is not "to write software, design hardware, and ship products," from the moment my daughters were born my job is educator, and social advocate. Shipping products: That's just what I do to pay the bills. Don't get me wrong, I love what I do for a living. I still get excited about new toys (we have new equipment showing up next week), cool projects, being involved in cutting-edge research, but at the end of the day, it's all meaningless. None of it compares to the glow in my daughters eyes two years ago when she opened the Mindtorms kit she got for christmas, or the excitement _she_ has when she pulls out the erector set with some grand new idea.
So, yeah, _my_ job is to educate and crusade.
How do you think people react to hearing that what they perceive (often rightfully) as hard-earned success was, in your eyes, unearned?
It's not a productive line of discussion.
> So, yeah, _my_ job is to educate and crusade.
Using divisive and emotional rhetoric just makes people stop listening.
I'd be interested in sponsoring, hosting, or otherwise contributing to non-gendered youth programs that were welcoming to girls and boys.
I don't even know where to start, but I do know that the Ada Initiative's divisive identity politics and concern-trolling aren't something I agree with, and disagreement with their organization doesn't make me a "male privileged" moral bankrupt individual.
Ahh, but that's the guts of male privilege isn't it. Their hard-earned success was much easier to come by than a women whose achieved the same level of success. That's what privilege means. It was easier for man to gain that success than their women counterpart. Perhaps not so rhetorical after all. It just stings. Sometimes the truth does that. And sometimes, the only way to break through the denial of an issue is to take a hard stance.
This _is_ an emotional issue. It's people's lives we're talking about. As young women, it's emotional for my daughters. As a father, it's emotional for me. As developers who want to "expand the talent pool", it's emotional for the industry. As people who wish to be blind to gender, it's emotional for society.
> I'd be interested in sponsoring, hosting, or otherwise contributing to non-gendered youth programs
That's great. I'm involved in several myself, including the STEM outreach program at our schools. That doesn't mean that programs targeted at young girls aren't necessary. These "gendered" programs are as much about counter-acting the social pressure the keeps them out of STEM as they are about introducing and developing interest in STEM generally.
Now, I don't know anything about the Ada Initiative, so I'll leave that alone, but will say this, as I said before, ignoring the problem may not make you morally bankrupt, but it does make you complicit in others bankruptcy.
Do you want to be right, or do you want to be heard?
But perhaps the men never wanted to be engineers and society forced them. It wasn't easy for them to give up their dreams. But they did because of evil society.
It goes both ways.
That's not the case where i live in, why? because we do not care about such things, treat woman and man the same way. unlike the old american racism, in modern countries there are no laws that discriminate girls.. why should we teach our daughters to fight for something that's not a problem?
Education is all we need, why should they hide their code? they should be proud of it
Even if women risk more criticism as newbies, the risk still exists for everyone, and solving it for part of the group only is discrimination.
If Github really cared about intimidation, they would offer a free private repo to new users as a promo, or perhaps have a $1/month micro plan. Instead they accept a small minority of users for free who wouldn't have paid anyway and score good will PR points.
And if the Ada Initiative cared about making women a part of the community, then they would recognize that those women will want to collaborate in private with men too, who should be given the same opportunity to experiment in private.
Modern feminists are the biggest sexists around, they keep acting like women can't compete with men on equal ground, even in a place as anonymous as the internet.
Have you ever noticed how the people complaining the loudest about online abuse are always the ones with the biggest pictures of themselves on their blogs? Featuring their lovely blue hair, tattoos, piercings, shot in their Pinterest-approved bedrooms? It's princesses all over again, and most women can see through the bullshit too.
>if you think that being a boy or a girl its an advantage then you are part of that problem
Unwillingness to recognize that women are at a disadvantage due to long-term social mores is part of the problem.
"Boys will always be boys, ignore them and move on?" You really don't get it, do you? Every little comment, snide remark, finger pointing... Words are sharp, they cut deep. In the end, it's these social pressures that result in fewer women entering STEM programs and careers. Ignoring them? No, that's not what we do. We, as men, must stop ignoring the problem, and put ourselves out there. Stop being silent, the problem will not go away, unless we speak up.
Its like african americans complaining about racism, i don't get it.. they are the coolest thing on earth right now!! Ignore that uneducated minority and move on.
So guess what, privileged male, it is a very big problem where you live.
> Its like african americans complaining about racism, i don't get it.. they are the coolest thing on earth right now!! Ignore that uneducated minority and move on.
rac·ism /ˈrāˌsizəm/
Noun
The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race.
And I think you will agree with me when I say that it is better to have a public repository, if you want to learn(unless ofcourse github wants female programmers to become closed source programmers). By handing out a freebie to the girls, you are telling the boys the exact same thing which your daughter's teacher told her.
We don't want girls/boys to become programmers, we want them to become whatever they want to. Having promotional activities for females may send a wrong impresion about a particular field to boys - who are also as human and as impresionable as the girls are in school. How many boys do you think take up engineering, just because it is seen as a manly branch and the society expects them to? I would argue many and that is a massive disadvantage to the boys who want to pursue something else.
We should aim at leveling the field instead of providing some people a helping hand at the cost of others. If helping girls take up CS is done by having girls-only CS colleges, free tuition for female CS students or free course material or as in this case free services based on gender, I will say stop. Because boys who are thinking of taking up CS will cry foul. What did your neighbour's son do to not deserve a free github private repo?
Instead, try changing the society. Tell your sons and daughters they can do anything. Tell your students that gender means nothing. Tell the teachers at your daughters school to back off and complain about her to the school authorities.
To be honest, I have no idea if that will work. But what I do believe is if you start handing out freebies to someone based on gender, it will poison the well for the boys, who will cry foul. It wasn't their fault they were born as boys. Equality - yes. Preferential treatment - no.
Up to this point, I've not taken a stance on this particular program, but I will not. There's plenty of research that suggests that the impact of public ridicule on young women is different than the impact on young men. While the reasons for this aren't, necessarily, clear, the reaction is different. Allowing young women to develop their skills in a "safe" environment where criticism can be sought from trusted sources prior to making that work public has been shown to be beneficial. So, in the end, I do support the idea of making it easier for young women to to get private github accounts. As I also support "girls only" clubs that help develop their skills, and counter act the social pressures that push young women away from technology in the first place. These programs do exactly as you suggest, they attempt to level the playing field by giving women certain advantages and encouragement to balance the social, political, and economic advantages that men already have. Until such time as we actually have gender equality, these programs are necessary.
The backstory: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/16029337/goldieblox-the-...
You know what's not fair? A Teacher telling a 12 year old girl that she needs a backup plan because girls getting an engineering degree, well, that's hard. Getting one from MIT, girls just don't do that. With the very next breath telling the boy standing next to the girl that she (the teacher) knows he can get into MIT if he works hard.
I'm just sick of it. I'm sick of my little girl coming home crying because some idiot crushed her dream of an engineering degree from MIT because girls don't do that. I'm sick of the privileged idiots here, complaining that women are getting some kind of advantage because they get a free github account. I'm sick of cluelessness.
The barriers for women in the workplace are difficult enough, it's worse in tech. The sooner we accept that, and accept that some organizations really are try to make a difference, the better off we'll be. How many times have we read stories about women who are alienated by their peers because their interests align with something that isn't "girlie." Please!
I've fought hard to teach my girls that society's barriers are there to be knocked down, that they shouldn't get discouraged and that they can do what ever they want. 18 years later, I'm proud that my oldest has ignored the criticism, the "you can't do that, it's a man's job" BS and is on her way to the Coast Guard where she will train as a rescue swimmer (there's only 7 women rescue swimmers now). I'm proud that my youngest stood up to that teacher and told her: well, perhaps MIT isn't the place for her. After all, MIT engineers ask UIUC engineers for help of the real difficult problems, though MIT will make a fine backup plan.
My point is, boys, get over it. I'm sorry you didn't get something for free. Oh wait, you did. You got to be male, a much bigger advantage than a free private github repository.
Edit: Spelling/grammer