News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:SpaceX Grasshopper Flies High by mikeash on Tuesday April 23, 2013 @11:31AM (#5595739)
To put it in perspective, the fuel used to launch a Space Shuttle cost in the neighborhood of $1 million, while the cost of the entire launch was somewhere around $500 million to $1 billion.
Re:SpaceX Grasshopper Flies High by wiredfool on Tuesday April 23, 2013 @12:00PM (#5595945)
Another perspective is that the Falcon9 carries about as much kerosene as a 747.
Re:SpaceX Grasshopper Flies High by 747facts on Tuesday April 23, 2013 @07:53PM (#5598726)
I decided to fact check you. 57,285 U.S. gallons in a fully loaded 747. Jet-A is 6.84 lb/US gal. That's about 196 tons. Looks like stage 1 of the Falcon 9 is estimated to use 239 tons of RP-1 and stage 2 49 tons.

http://www.boeing.com/boeing/commercial/747family/pf/pf_400_...

http://www.spacelaunchreport.com/falcon9.html

Re:SpaceX Grasshopper Flies High by simonh on Wednesday April 24, 2013 @04:43AM (#5600475)
Cool, so they're well within an order of magnitude of each other.
Re:SpaceX Grasshopper Flies High by mikeash on Tuesday April 23, 2013 @12:21PM (#5596072)
That's a good one, although a 747 gets its oxygen for free.
Re:SpaceX Grasshopper Flies High by schiffern on Tuesday April 23, 2013 @04:21PM (#5597710)
LOX is literally cheaper than dirt (8¢/lb, or 67¢/gallon).
Re:SpaceX Grasshopper Flies High by DavidSJ on Tuesday April 23, 2013 @04:18PM (#5597687)
Yes, but oxygen's pretty easy to come by it turns out.
Re:SpaceX Grasshopper Flies High by InclinedPlane on Tuesday April 23, 2013 @11:57AM (#5595925)
For the Falcon 9, it costs about $200k for propellant per launch (Kerosene is cheaper than LH2 and the F9 puts about 1/10th as much mass in orbit) while the price of the launch is about $50 million.
Re:SpaceX Grasshopper Flies High by slacka on Tuesday April 23, 2013 @03:03PM (#5597240)
Could and real or kerbal rocket scientists here explain why SpaceX isn't doing something like the curiosity rover landing? Sure there's 3 extra steps, deploy parachute, cut parachute, and evasive maneuver, but the fuel saving would massive.
Re:SpaceX Grasshopper Flies High by JshWright on Tuesday April 23, 2013 @04:01PM (#5597585)
I'm not sure the savings would be as massive as you think (and would be offset by other costs).

Parachutes (and associated equipment) are heavy, so you'll burn fuel lifting that extra weight.

Parachutes are complicated, and would be an extra system to develop, test, and validate.

Parachutes are annoying to repack/replace (increasing turnaround time).

Parachutes put odd stresses on large objects when they deploy (increasing the amount of inspection you would have to do after each flight).

All that hassle to reduce the terminal velocity by a couple hundred miles an hour. That's not that big a win for a pretty high cost.

Re:SpaceX Grasshopper Flies High by Florin_Andrei on Tuesday April 23, 2013 @05:48PM (#5598217)
> All that hassle to reduce the terminal velocity by a couple hundred miles an hour.

That's the TLDR. The delta-vee from the parachute is not worth the trouble.

Re:SpaceX Grasshopper Flies High by mikeash on Tuesday April 23, 2013 @06:28PM (#5598382)
Or put it another way, parachutes are generally less effective than using a system you already have for other purposes. A parachute probably beats a rocket engine if your only task is landing, but when you already have the rocket engine, you're better off using it for landing than building a completely separate landing system.

In short, same basic reason why we use wings and wheels to land airplanes rather than dropping them from a parachute when they reach their destination.

Re:SpaceX Grasshopper Flies High by schiffern on Tuesday April 23, 2013 @04:28PM (#5597767)
Not "massive". The empty stage is very light, so a little propellant goes a long way. It's less than 10% of the fuel for the entire descent phase (and the optimal upper stage length goes up to compensate somewhat).
Re:SpaceX Grasshopper Flies High by smackfu on Tuesday April 23, 2013 @04:22PM (#5597721)
Well, one reason is that parachutes at this scale aren't that simple. For instance, check out the ones on the Shuttle SRBs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Shuttle_Solid_Rocket_Boos...