News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Truly elastic clouds with Zerg: OS-less Erlang on Xen by zobzu on Sunday March 24, 2013 @07:28AM (#5431746)
few questions:

"how do get logs of everyone accessing the server?"

"how do you debug the server itself when it fails?"

"how do you audit the server if an attacker actually breaks in?"

it seems to me that the app has to implement all that as with an exokernel, except, there's a single process running, yours

To my understanding: compared to traditional vms, what you gain is speed and simplicity. compared to jails and containers, what you gain is simplicity.

I wonder if it would not be better, to use an actual OS written with a modern language, so that we retain some of the useful attributes (multiprocessing, ie each "vm" is really just a container with a messaging system, unshared filesystems, but with some shared areas, etc.)

Re:Truly elastic clouds with Zerg: OS-less Erlang on Xen by viktorsovietov on Sunday March 24, 2013 @09:04AM (#5431940)
every instance can export its monitoring information as 9p virtual filesystem, which easily can be mounted from outside

we debug server code in BEAM, Erlang on Xen is a deployment platform, if instance crashed we simply restart it.

intruder has very few chances to find breaking in beneficial - there's no shell inside which gives only minimal chances to snatch control, instance simply will crash. also, having of no OS leaves no holes to dig deeper

You're correct, it's exokernel-like approach.

We gain simplicity, much better resource consumption characteristrics, manageability at large scale and much better instance mobility. And, well, security.

Re:Truly elastic clouds with Zerg: OS-less Erlang on Xen by zobzu on Sunday March 24, 2013 @05:02PM (#5433567)
It mainly mean that instead of using a shell that runs /bin/sh and associated control commands (ls, cat, whatever), you've to bring your own shell code and call the functions yourself. I assume one would write such a loader in erlang that serves a webpage to query any content from the fs, database, etc.

Also, IPC seems to be mainly network based, which means latency. Some modern OS designs function with the same base ideas: managed runtime, small codebase, fully contained processes but use system-local IPC and thus, do have multi-processing (instead of multi-nodes, or in fact, in addition to multi-nodes).

Maybe some of those should be written in a web-friendly language and ship and httpd for adoption (so far they've not been adopted as the cost of rewriting apps > using archaic OSes)

Ideally I'd see an OS with:

- above characteristics (singularity, plan9 like)

- Simple, fast, efficient filesystem (i.e. with features and performance as good as popular databases) - so you don't need a database server

- clustered resources that are language-aware: filesystem (database), cpu, memory are networked resources, but you get control from the code about what is executed on the same local instance (ie same physical system) and what can be shipped to "any instance" - this brings true, full elasticity. (all this is also a little plan9-ish but not exactly)

Re:Truly elastic clouds with Zerg: OS-less Erlang on Xen by jacques_chester on Sunday March 24, 2013 @07:54PM (#5434433)
> Simple, fast, efficient filesystem (i.e. with features and performance as good as popular databases) - so you don't need a database server

File systems and databases (of any kind) are not 1:1 substitutes.

Re:Truly elastic clouds with Zerg: OS-less Erlang on Xen by p9idf on Sunday March 24, 2013 @09:26AM (#5431983)
>every instance can export its monitoring information as 9p virtual filesystem

How do you handle authentication?

Re:Truly elastic clouds with Zerg: OS-less Erlang on Xen by viktorsovietov on Sunday March 24, 2013 @10:09AM (#5432067)
right now it looks like http://erlangonxen.org/more/mumble