John Quijada and Ithkuil, the Language He Invented

Re:John Quijada and Ithkuil, the Language He Invented by cscurmudgeon on Thursday March 21, 2013 @11:05PM (#5421135)

Classical Sanskrit was designed with this exact goal in mind.

http://www.aaai.org/ojs/index.php/aimagazine/article/view/46...

There are still native speakers of Sanskrit. The cool thing about Sanskrit is that not only is its syntax formalized, but people have tried to give an account of its semantics over thousands of years.

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Re:John Quijada and Ithkuil, the Language He Invented by anuraj on Friday March 22, 2013 @10:07AM (#5422943)

There are no native speakers of Sanskrit - some people have tried to revive Sanskrit by speaking it - sometimes in large groups. Usage of Sanskrit as a day to day language probably ended hundreds if not thousands of years ago. There are still books written in the language and quiet a number of people can understand it. It is a matter of debate if Sanskrit was any time used as a primary language for communication.

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Re:John Quijada and Ithkuil, the Language He Invented by cscurmudgeon on Friday March 22, 2013 @10:22AM (#5423041)

It is a matter of debate if Sanskrit was any time used as a primary language for communication.

It is not a matter of debate as there are speakers even today. Declining definitely, but still significant.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanskrit#Contemporary_usage

The 1991 and 2001, census of India recorded 49,736 and 14,135 persons, respectively, with Sanskrit as their native language.[1]

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Re:John Quijada and Ithkuil, the Language He Invented by anuraj on Sunday March 24, 2013 @10:46AM (#5432187)

Yes - but native language in census terms do not mean mother tongue. There are few villages in India which adopted Sanskrit as first tongue - That is an experiment not akin to being part of a continuity. At the most, you can say these native speakers revived a dead language.

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Re:John Quijada and Ithkuil, the Language He Invented by cscurmudgeon on Thursday March 28, 2013 @07:03PM (#5458234)

I know this is a very sensitive topic given the language chauvinism that is prevalent in India. There are at least two villages which speak Sanskrit (just Google it). It was definitely the case that there were more speakers of Sanskrit (Vedic+Classical) and people who have Sanskrit as their mother tongue. People sort of resort to gymnastics to deny the obvious. As long as there are people speaking a language natively and people genuinely interested in it, I don't think you can call that language dead. But I agree, Sanskrit speakers are on the decline and it is a bad thing.

http://www.mangalorean.com/news.php?newstype=broadcast&b...

But surprisingly, today in Mangalore, there is one unique family where all the members are using Sanskrit as their mother tongue and they all interact with each other in this language only. Seems highly improbable but nevertheless, it is true.

I think one reason for the decline is that you need to be pretty intelligent to learn Sanskrit (vs say Tamil or English). I sort of feel that the human race itself was more smart a few thousand years ago. (See http://rt.com/usa/news/intelligence-stanford-years-fragile-5...)

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Re:John Quijada and Ithkuil, the Language He Invented by anuraj on Monday April 01, 2013 @10:18AM (#5473132)

I can pretty well understand Sanskrit and have learned it for 10 years. It is definitely not difficult to learn. 'Sanskrit' died several hundred years ago as a spoken language - and efforts to revive it by adopting it has yielded mixed results. (The villages you mention are adopters). A language is said to be living when 1) There are people who speak it for daily purposes 2) It continues to evolve to address needs of the present. Sanskrit passes criteria 1 with some determined followers, but fails criteria 2. Point to be noted is that characteristics that make Sanskrit orderly and strict, is an offshoot of the language being ear marked for restricted scholarly usage and not the tenet of a living breathing language. That said, there is a vast literary treasure awaiting people who are determined to learn Sanskrit and there are enough avenues available in India and abroad for the same.

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Re:John Quijada and Ithkuil, the Language He Invented by goldfeld on Thursday March 21, 2013 @11:42PM (#5421248)

And it comes with the added benefit of making one able to read ancient literature in it's original form. Thanks for the link, fascinating stuff that such a language would be the perfect match for AI. Stranger than fiction.

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Re:John Quijada and Ithkuil, the Language He Invented by batgaijin on Friday March 22, 2013 @04:56AM (#5421949)

what does that mean that NLP and sanskrit go so well together? Is that accidental?

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Re:John Quijada and Ithkuil, the Language He Invented by cscurmudgeon on Friday March 22, 2013 @08:39AM (#5422529)

It is definitely accidental given that they had no computers back then. It makes sense as Classical Sanskrit was an effort to remove ambiguity in Vedic Sanskrit and improve precision while still being a natural language. A lot, not all, of modern NLP is about removing ambiguity.

The way we describe grammars can be attributed to one of the first Sanskrit grammarians, Pāṇini.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backus%E2%80%93Naur_Form

The idea of semantic roles can also be traced back to him.

http://elies.rediris.es/elies11/cap5111.htm

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Re:John Quijada and Ithkuil, the Language He Invented by andreasvc on Friday March 22, 2013 @05:58PM (#5426059)

It is odd to say NLP is about "removing ambiguity". Rather, it is about _coping_ with ambiguity (of the linguistic variety). Using a language with (supposedly) less ambiguity would just be a cop-out, not a real solution.

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Re:John Quijada and Ithkuil, the Language He Invented by cscurmudgeon on Friday March 22, 2013 @06:10PM (#5426103)

Agreed. We need to understand how humans do language fully with ambiguity. We should also study Sanskrit and understand it fully from an AI perspective.

Otherwise, it is like trying to go to a planet in the Andromeda galaxy without first ever going to the moon. Never gonna happen.

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Re:John Quijada and Ithkuil, the Language He Invented by batgaijin on Friday March 22, 2013 @09:38PM (#5426889)

well... I mean do you think that a language evolved that is this easy to parse accidental? I mean our brains are computers using mimicry and heuristics... why isn't that accounted for more in the creation of this language?

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Re:John Quijada and Ithkuil, the Language He Invented by _pmf_ on Friday March 22, 2013 @05:53AM (#5422064)

Thank you for this!

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