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Re:The PyCon Incident by jasonlotito on Wednesday March 20, 2013 @07:32PM (#5411439)
So, just to be clear, you are boycotting a company that employees someone who upholds the code of conduct agreed to by all attendees of pycon, but make no mention of the company that actually fired the guy.

Gotcha.

Re:The PyCon Incident by josh-j on Wednesday March 20, 2013 @07:38PM (#5411486)
It's a sane move if you want to discourage the culture that Adria is encouraging. Certainly her employers don't deserve any blame, though.
Re:The PyCon Incident by djcapelis on Wednesday March 20, 2013 @07:52PM (#5411586)
> Certainly her employers don't deserve any blame, though

To be clear, SendGrid is her employer and that's exactly who sergiotapia sent an e-mail to saying he was going to boycott and recommended that others do the same.

Re:The PyCon Incident by josh-j on Wednesday March 20, 2013 @08:00PM (#5411650)
I'm clear on that. This whole issue is deeply entwined with philosophy which makes it all a bit amorphous. From one perspective, you could argue that it's moral to boycott SendGrid if it leads to "positive" consequences, for example.
Re:The PyCon Incident by jasonlotito on Wednesday March 20, 2013 @07:49PM (#5411561)
What culture is that?

* Calling people out who violate PyCon's code of conduct? * Following this up by going to PyCon and getting it resolved? (http://pycon.blogspot.com/2013/03/pycon-response-to-inapprop...)

Are we really arguing that people should keep silent when things like this happen? When a rule is violated? That they should only respond after it's taken place?

Is that what people are really asking for?

Re:The PyCon Incident by josh-j on Wednesday March 20, 2013 @07:55PM (#5411613)
I don't think assuming or mentioning negative talking points in the form of a question is a productive way to have a discussion.
Re:The PyCon Incident by jasonlotito on Wednesday March 20, 2013 @07:58PM (#5411639)
So then what culture is she encouraging?

* Calling people out who violate PyCon's code of conduct * Following this up by going to PyCon and getting it resolved

Those are the two things she did. Call people out who broke a rule. She also went to PyCon organizers to resolve it.

So, what culture is she encouraging, and why would we want to discourage it?

Re:The PyCon Incident by josh-j on Wednesday March 20, 2013 @08:26PM (#5411817)
Personally, and I think this might be the case with most people here, I'm most worried by the public shaming of the two individuals. Them being kicked out of PyCon isn't as much a concern to me.

I think the culture that she's implicitly promoting is ultimately a suspicious and hostile one where there is no principle of charity but instead there's the inverse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_charity). And not by the fact that she reported it to PyCon organizers, but by the fact that she then escalated it to the public. In this instance, I think she should have kept their identities anonymous in her tweets and blog post.

There are instances where I can imagine revealing their identities would be the right thing to do, but this doesn't come close to it by my judgement (for all that's worth).

Re:The PyCon Incident by eropple on Wednesday March 20, 2013 @08:42PM (#5411905)
I am no fan of the behavior ascribed to these guys, but the PyCon code of conduct also says no "harassing photography or recording" and, in my book, her blasting a photograph to multiple thousands of followers is an intentional invocation of a shitstorm to attempt to harm them. PyCon also is on record as not being down with the "public shaming" thing, too; see their policies regarding it.

The two guys are unprofessional assholes. 100% agreed. But by my lights, she is too.

Re:The PyCon Incident by Domenic_S on Wednesday March 20, 2013 @08:14PM (#5411748)
She's encouraging an internet lynch mob, and that's a culture most communities actively discourage.
Re:The PyCon Incident by rmrfrmrf on Wednesday March 20, 2013 @10:28PM (#5412400)
She @-replied pycon staff. Compare that to the HN and Reddit communities out for Adria's head.
Re:The PyCon Incident by corresation on Wednesday March 20, 2013 @11:04PM (#5412560)
Her initial response was a twitter message with the pycon hashtag and a picture of the "culprits". It was demanding a lynch mob resolution. She never directly replied to or messaged pycon staff, though she had the wherewithal to search up the code of conduct.
Re:The PyCon Incident by jasonlotito on Wednesday March 20, 2013 @11:54PM (#5412788)
Oh shit. She didn't file the HA-RASS-401A form. She deserves everything she got.

> She never directly replied to or messaged pycon staff

That's not true. At all.

Re:The PyCon Incident by corresation on Thursday March 21, 2013 @10:02AM (#5415052)
She didn't file the HA-RASS-401A form. She deserves everything she got.

What did she "get"? If you do something publicly, you are open for public criticism. That's life.

However few would debate that it is utter hubris to use social media to demand a lynchmob response to a relatively mild social faux pas (which is 100% bullying behavior. Ala "I have 9000 twitter followers so you'll see who is the boss"). I don't blame her for the guy getting fired (that's on his shitty employer that knee jerk responds to something asinine), nor should anyone else, but I think the original activities were much more egregious and socially questionable than making a dongle joke.

Re:The PyCon Incident by katbyte on Wednesday March 20, 2013 @09:24PM (#5412115)
no one is arguing about that, it seems to be more the culture of publicly shaming people for things that are well below the level of what should be.
Re:The PyCon Incident by rmrfrmrf on Wednesday March 20, 2013 @10:25PM (#5412385)
"We're not choosing your company because we believe in the right for men to tell dick jokes."

I'd quickly e-mail back: "don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out."

Re:The PyCon Incident by moistgorilla on Wednesday March 20, 2013 @08:12PM (#5411737)
It has nothing to do with the code of conduct considering that very code says that you are not supposed to take a picture of someone without their express permission.
Re:The PyCon Incident by jasonlotito on Thursday March 21, 2013 @07:32AM (#5414328)
https://us.pycon.org/2013/about/code-of-conduct/

Where does it say anything about someone's expressed permission? Doing a search on the page for several words did not bring up anything remotely close. Permission isn't even used.

Re:The PyCon Incident by _ak on Thursday March 21, 2013 @10:08AM (#5415092)
"harassing photography or recording"
Re:The PyCon Incident by jasonlotito on Thursday March 21, 2013 @10:37AM (#5415293)
I read that part, which says nothing about what the person above me was saying.

This is the statement being contested:

> that very code says that you are not supposed to take a picture of someone without their express permission.

So, unless you can produce something that says this, it's a lie.

As for this:

> harassing photography or recording

It didn't happen.

Re:The PyCon Incident by _ak on Thursday March 21, 2013 @12:45PM (#5416567)
well, the photos that Adria took were taken to publicly shame (which can be considered a form of harassment) the two people, so yes, that definitely did happen.
Re:The PyCon Incident by flyosity on Thursday March 21, 2013 @12:48AM (#5412996)
Actually, she broke the code as well by taking someone's photo without their consent.
Re:The PyCon Incident by jacalata on Thursday March 21, 2013 @02:45AM (#5413370)
I've seen a lot of people say this, but I can't find a reference to it in the code of conduct here: https://us.pycon.org/2013/about/code-of-conduct/. Is there a longer version or different version somewhere, or am I just missing it?
Re:The PyCon Incident by corresation on Wednesday March 20, 2013 @10:20PM (#5412359)
There is a dramatic difference between twitter hysterics and unleashing a lynch mob (and a woman under duress is a dangerous weapon to unleash on the intertubes), and direct messaging responsible parties. Had she messaged pycon (if she wasn't willing to simply ask them to shut up) this would be a non-story. But, as many suspect, she had to take the opportunity to be the hero of the story to save that little girl on the stage, unless of course that little girl on the stage says something that might be construed as offensive in the future, losing their job and reputation as a result.