News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Former TSA screener says the job does little to keep flie... by tokenadult on Sunday March 10, 2013 @12:35PM (#5352465)
The article wraps up with, "Anyone boarding an aircraft should feel maybe only a teeny tiny bit safer than if there were no TSA at all."

Well, yes. The TSA has not improved the security of airline passengers in the United States to any demonstrable degree. I remember a more innocent time almost three decades ago when my work involved frequent flying, such that I have been to most major airports in the United States repeatedly and have logged weeks above 30,000 feet of altitude. I have a photograph from those days showing me seated at the controls of a commercial airliner, which the crew of the airliner took after I boarded a flight early in the boarding process. In those days a business traveler could sit down to pose for a snapshot inside the aircraft cockpit, with the crew having no concerns about a person who was not an airline employee being there. That's the carefree ease of flying in the United States I remember from the beginning of my adulthood.

Years ago I wrote here on Hacker News, in response to one of the recurring complaints about airport security procedures, "Hear. Hear. I was just on flights out of town over the weekend, and it occurred to me that the terrorists have won by making air travel so inconvenient and annoying for every American who ever flies domestically. 'Maybe Secure Flight is a good use of our money; maybe it isn't. But let's have debates like that in the open, as part of the budget process, where it belongs.' This is the general answer for review of current security procedures: we should check whether they are worthwhile for the amount of improved security they promise to provide."

About one year ago another participant, who came to the United States from another country, wrote,

It's also the only place that made me take my shoes off before the metal detector, which I found quite humiliating

This appears to have been one of the calculations of the terrorist group that put up the shoe bomber

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_shoe_bomb_plot

to trying his failed attempt to blow up an airplane with a bomb hidden in his shoe. Some of the co-religionists of some of those terrorists consider it extremely degrading to be bare-footed in certain situations deemed to be "holy" situations (I know this from being told this by a friend who had newly converted to Islam when I was overseas in 1984), and thus they have probably been glad to humiliate Americans as Americans have reacted to the failed shoe bomb plot. My proposal is that United States airport security give up on requesting passengers to remove shoes. Yeah, maybe have chemical sensing devices at airports to screen for bombs on shoes, but let us all wear our shoes onto airplanes and throughout the insides of airports. The screening procedures at present appear to be an overreaction to the actual risk of a shoe bomb destroying a passenger airplane, especially in view of other countries not having the same screening procedure for airline passengers.

I've summed up my response to past incidents of terrorism directed at people from civilized countries overseas or civilians in civilized countries this way: it's important for all of us to remember the basic issue here. The basic issue is whether people in free countries, like most readers of Hacker News, are going to be able to enjoy the right of free speech throughout their country, on any subject, or whether any American or Danish Dutch person or other person accustomed to free speech who happens to be within reach of attack by a crazy foreign person has to prepare for war just to continue to exercise free speech. On my part, I'm going to continue to comment on public policy based on verifiable facts and reason and logic, even if that seems offensive. I am not going to shrink from saying that people in backward, poorly governed countries that could never have invented the Internet have no right to kill and destroy just because someone in a free country laughs or scorns at their delusions. The people who are destroying diplomatic buildings and killing diplomats or journalists or bombing public buildings visited by random civilians are declining to use thoughtful discussion to show that they are anything other than blights on humankind.

Allow me to reemphasize this point. The many participants on HN who criticize Transportation Security Agency "security theater" as a meaningless reduction in the freedom of people who travel to the United States are right on the basic point. If free citizens of free countries can't live in freedom because of fear of terrorists, the terrorists have already won. You and I should be able to speak our minds and express our opinions in the manner of all people in free countries--sometimes agreeing with one another, sometimes disagreeing, but always letting the other guy have his say. To engage in self-censorship because of fear of violent thugs is to be defeated by the thugs.

We should also be able to fly freely about the country with no more than strictly necessary security precautions. I want to be able to walk into an airport with my shoes on and walk calmly to an arrival gate to greet arriving passengers there. I used to do that. And I want to be able to carry a Swiss Army knife in an airline carry-on bag. Grandmothers and mothers and children should surely be able to board an airliner unmolested in a free country like the United States.

That said, I remember when conditions changed in the United States. I stood on top of the former World Trade Center in New York City twice while traveling with foreign visitors to the United States during my earlier frequent flyer days. Even today, the United States is still second only to France as a country destination for foreign tourists (and rather more of the tourists to France can drive cars or ride trains to France than can many visitors to the United States). So as obnoxious as current TSA security procedures are to me and to many, they are not so obnoxious that people have stopped visiting the United States for fun. Because I remember the peace and freedom I long enjoyed here to welcome visitors to the United States from around the world, I want the leaders and active participants in terrorist networks to identified through constant surveillance and intelligence, and I want terrorists to be attacked relentlessly where they live, so that they have to hide in caves while people all over the world who renounce their goals get to lead civilized, peaceful lives in the Twenty-First Century.

I think the United States has been chastened by some of the results of its well documented policies from the 1950s and 1960s of assassinating foreign leaders with which it disagreed. These days the democratic, developed countries agree to win influence in the world mostly through persuasion and demonstration of the benefits of freedom and rule of law and free trade. I think now the United States is much more interested in information openness as a means to make sure that countries all around the world trade peacefully rather than waging war one one another, and I think that is the only long-term way to defeat terrorist networks. The current armed warfare strategy of drone attacks on specific terrorist leaders rather than mass bombing attacks on cities (as in World War II) is a step forward in war-fighting effectiveness and an improvement in reducing civilian casualties.

The reactionary movements that use terrorism to stop progress must be destroyed. What really seems to work for this is active intelligence gathering aimed at the terrorist movements themselves. Comments in previous threads have said that Israel succeeds in doing that for the most part. Israel also led the world in making airliner cockpits were secure from hijackers entering them. Certainly we should make sure not to harass citizens or visitors who happen to have the wrong name or the wrong pattern of physical appearance, but identify threats on the basis of more relevant information. (My own children look very central Asian, and when my oldest son grows out his black beard he could readily pass for a terrorist by mere appearance.) Taliban delenda est. Al Qaeda delenda est.

Re:Former TSA screener says the job does little to keep flie... by jedbrown on Sunday March 10, 2013 @02:15PM (#5352811)
Do you keep your comments version-controlled so that we can read the diff? ;-)

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5215820

Re:Former TSA screener says the job does little to keep flie... by Evbn on Sunday March 10, 2013 @10:36PM (#5354581)
If we get the same stories posted every month in paraphrase, we deserve the same comments as well.
Re:Former TSA screener says the job does little to keep flie... by gambiting on Sunday March 10, 2013 @01:46PM (#5352703)
Really good post - just a note from myself - I've had to remove my shoes for screening many times while flying out from my native country(Poland) and that wasn't even to the US,but to other EU countries. So this is not something that only TSA does.
Re:Former TSA screener says the job does little to keep flie... by goodcanadian on Sunday March 10, 2013 @08:13PM (#5354208)
And, I have never had to remove my shoes at airports outside of the U.S., including on flights bound for the U.S..
Re:Former TSA screener says the job does little to keep flie... by ptaipale on Monday March 11, 2013 @03:56AM (#5355422)
I have, including on flights inside EU. What shoes do you have?

(Really, this has an impact - many shoes contain some metal reinforcements that beep at the detector.)

(I've also been asked to take off the shoes for screening, inside EU, without any detector issues - I suppose the security people have to take in a quota of white middle-aged and old men and women, in order to avoid accusations of racial, age and gender profiling.)

Re:Former TSA screener says the job does little to keep flie... by Samuel_Michon on Sunday March 10, 2013 @04:17PM (#5353281)
As do many other airports in European countries, but it all started after 2001. The same is true for the new EU passports with biometric data.
Re:Former TSA screener says the job does little to keep flie... by taligent on Sunday March 10, 2013 @06:10PM (#5353722)
I've flown to over 50 countries and the rules are the same everywhere.

The whole TSA uproar is actually more of a reflection of the anti-government, libertarian, personal rights above community rights attitude that uniquely exists within many Americans.

Re:Former TSA screener says the job does little to keep flie... by newman314 on Monday March 11, 2013 @05:49AM (#5355735)
No, they are not. Plenty of airports in Asia do not require the removal of shoes.

Source: me. I fly a lot too.

Re:Former TSA screener says the job does little to keep flie... by Evbn on Sunday March 10, 2013 @10:37PM (#5354586)
Really? The whole world drastically changed its security policy in the same way after one event in the US?
Re:Former TSA screener says the job does little to keep flie... by ptaipale on Sunday March 10, 2013 @03:14PM (#5353059)
Many good points, but I disagree on a few:

in view of other countries not having the same screening procedure for airline passengers - the procedure is essentially similar anywhere I've flown (not all of the world, but US, Europe and some Far East). Of course this is to some extent a necessary outcome of U.S. regulations (as any flight which has people and luggage transferring to U.S. bound flights needs to take care of this to comply) but it is impacting far more people and geographical area than just U.S. And more global standards do make sense here.

co-religionists of some of those terrorists consider it extremely degrading to be bare-footed in certain situations deemed to be "holy" situations - I think you have got this backwards. It is actually a custom for Muslims to take off shoes in holy places and when praying. Likewise, when you go to a mosque, or the home of a Muslim, take off your shoes or at least offer to do so.

Finally, I'd say it's not going to be possible to "destroy" reactionary movements like the Taliban. You can kill some people, and some killing may be necessary, but a total victory in that kind of war would only be possible through such a force on ground for such a long time that it isn't feasible. It's only feasible to convert them to believing that more tolerance of different religions gives them a better and more honorable life.

Re:Former TSA screener says the job does little to keep flie... by jasonkostempski on Sunday March 10, 2013 @06:01PM (#5353683)
"Anyone boarding an aircraft should feel maybe only a teeny tiny bit safer than if there were no TSA at all."

I feel less safe. Same risk of death, near 100% chance my child is going feel uncomfortable during some process, wonder why it happened, wonder why I let it happen and I'll have no explanation other than "If you wanna go to Legoland, this is what you gotta deal with."

Re:Former TSA screener says the job does little to keep flie... by andyl on Sunday March 10, 2013 @01:00PM (#5352547)
Perhaps 'feeling a tiny bit safer' is the whole point. Maybe the intended product of 'security theater' is an emotional response by the flying public - sort of a marketing campaign that generates a increased sense of confidence and well being for air travelers.