Re:The AR-15 Is More Than a Gun. It’s a Gadget
by hga on Monday February 25, 2013 @04:15PM
(#5281852)
The issue here, which was introduced by the FBI after their infamous 1986 Miami shootout, is that at worst case you have to shoot through someone's arm and then penetrate to the vitals (especially heart). Obviously that's going to over-penetrate front to back, and it's occurred to me the worst case that way is if you only hit a lung, plus of course whatever happens with the ribs. I would expect most self-defense expanding rounds to go right through with a lot of retained energy depending on what happens around the ribs.
From Wikipedia on the FBI shootout, matching my memory of various accounts:
"As Platt climbed out of the passenger side car window, one of Dove's 9 mm rounds hit his right upper arm and went on to penetrate his chest, stopping an inch away from his heart. The autopsy found Platt’s right lung was collapsed and his chest cavity contained 1.3 liters of blood, suggesting damage to the main blood vessels of the right lung. Of his many gunshot wounds, this first was the primary injury responsible for Platt’s eventual death."
He was functional for quite some time after that, including killing the two agents who died in the shootout. Here's some illuminating details from the end of that section:
"[...] The bullet penetrated Platt's chest and bruised the spinal cord, ending the gunfight.
The shootout involved ten people: two suspects and eight FBI agents. Of the ten, only one, Special Agent Manauzzi, did not fire any shots (firearm thrown from car in initial collision), while only one, Special Agent Risner, was able to emerge from the battle without a wound. The incident lasted under five minutes yet approximately 145 shots were exchanged.
Toxicology tests showed that the abilities of Platt and Matix to fight through multiple traumatic gunshot wounds and continue to battle and attempt to escape were not achieved through any chemical means. Both of their bodies were drug-free at the time of their deaths."
Yikes. And there are more incidents like this one.
From Wikipedia on the FBI shootout, matching my memory of various accounts:
"As Platt climbed out of the passenger side car window, one of Dove's 9 mm rounds hit his right upper arm and went on to penetrate his chest, stopping an inch away from his heart. The autopsy found Platt’s right lung was collapsed and his chest cavity contained 1.3 liters of blood, suggesting damage to the main blood vessels of the right lung. Of his many gunshot wounds, this first was the primary injury responsible for Platt’s eventual death."
He was functional for quite some time after that, including killing the two agents who died in the shootout. Here's some illuminating details from the end of that section:
"[...] The bullet penetrated Platt's chest and bruised the spinal cord, ending the gunfight.
The shootout involved ten people: two suspects and eight FBI agents. Of the ten, only one, Special Agent Manauzzi, did not fire any shots (firearm thrown from car in initial collision), while only one, Special Agent Risner, was able to emerge from the battle without a wound. The incident lasted under five minutes yet approximately 145 shots were exchanged.
Toxicology tests showed that the abilities of Platt and Matix to fight through multiple traumatic gunshot wounds and continue to battle and attempt to escape were not achieved through any chemical means. Both of their bodies were drug-free at the time of their deaths."
Yikes. And there are more incidents like this one.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FBI_Miami_shootout)