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Re:SourceTree for Windows beta by homosaur on Sunday February 17, 2013 @10:38AM (#5235477)
That's good news for Windows users, their development tools really seem to be getting simpler and better lately. I'm a huge fan of SourceTree in general.

I formerly thought, "why would anyone want to use a GUI for Git? It's just a crutch so you don't have to use the CLI."

Then I started actually using SourceTree a bit. I've changed my tune considerably. I think there's great benefit to using a quality GUI for Git now even though you still need to use the CLI.

First, I became stuck in this intermediate user hell where I could do all the basic stuff but didn't know the commands or quite how to get it done. SourceTree allows a very good way to get that done right now with the understanding that you just executed a command under the surface. It allows to explore the capabilities of Git a little more than the CLI would and lets you punch over your weight in the meantime.

Second, I think having a high quality graphical representation of your Git tree in front of you helps you understand the structure of your tree and enables you to make more informed, better choices on the structure it takes.

Third, I like using it for pushes, pulls, and merges simply because this is the one place in Git I tend to make a typo and screw up data. Generally that's no big deal but once in a while you push something really dumb onto the origin remote and then feel really stupid about it. If it's yours one forced push and you're good but if it's collaborative, you can cause someone a major headache.

I do wish it were open source so I could rely on it going forward a little more but clearly Atalassian has a decent business model and they view this app as a great tool into it. It even has a nice cataloguing feature where you can throw in your Github and Bitbucket usernames and see all your online repos in a list. I find this nice when needing all my git stuff on a different computer than my primary.

Re:SourceTree for Windows beta by vor_ on Sunday February 17, 2013 @11:42AM (#5235677)
> I formerly thought, "why would anyone want to use a GUI for Git? It's just a crutch so you don't have to use the CLI."

Honestly, I can't stand Git on the command line and always interact with it through a GUI. I feel like source control in general is unnecessarily complicated, but Git even more so.

Re:SourceTree for Windows beta by bhauer on Sunday February 17, 2013 @12:29PM (#5235888)
Agreed. I've often made a point among colleagues that source control, because it's built by programmers for use nearly exclusively by programmers, has enjoyed very little user interface attention through its lifespan. Unlike other applications that have experimented and evolved their user interface relatively rapidly, source control like build tools, is an area where there is little demand for UI improvement (and hence, little value in doing so). Putting aside proprietary and very expensive source control systems, the open source options seem to align to the way we used computers generally in the following decades.

1970s: CVS

1980s: Subversion

1990s: Git (shifting Git to the 1990s even aligns it with the batch of distributed OS research from that era).

This is especially reductive and somewhat mean-spirited, but my point is that using Git gives me the feeling of using other types of applications from the 1990s. Source control remains stuck in an era where computer programs appeared to be designed in part to appeal to the curiosity of developers who take pride in mastering complex systems, not for being eminently usable.

When I say Git "feels 1990s" a retort is that I am a Git hater and should just use Perforce or some other crummy commercial product. That misses the point. It just feels like a tool from the 1990s, which to be clear, feels a heck of a lot better than a tool from the 1980s. But I live in the 2010s. I want a source control system that does its job and gets out of my way. Again, to be reductive and mean, just like build tools, source control systems are a time-sink that captivate the attention of people who enjoy fussing with tools. It's not that I don't like Git versus its real-world contemporaries, but I want Git + 20 years.

Re:SourceTree for Windows beta by MatthewPhillips on Sunday February 17, 2013 @02:00PM (#5236231)
Before git (and DVCS in general) every company had a source control manager. You could get a degree (and presumably still can) in revision control theory. This was necessary then because a developer couldn't completely grock it and get real development done at the same time. Today I don't know if any git shops that have a full-time source control manager.

So, if the worst thing about this generation of source control systems is an unflattering UI... I think we have awhile until the next generation takes over.

Re:SourceTree for Windows beta by jules on Sunday February 17, 2013 @03:33PM (#5236614)
The UI is an important problem, but also the needless complexity and leaky abstractions. This isn't limited to version control either, but is pervasive in all programming tools (IDEs/editors, build systems, programming languages, platforms, etc.)

This is caused by extreme conservatism and dogma.

"GUIs are for noobs, CLI is better"

"Everything should be text like the Unix gods intended" (code in particular)

"Keyboard is faster than mouse"

"Autocomplete? That just causes you not to learn anything"

"Who needs semantic code navigation when you have grep?"

"WYSIWYG? Use markdown or latex."

"What's wrong with the web? This canvas API is so cool."

etc.

Re:SourceTree for Windows beta by aninteger on Sunday February 17, 2013 @03:42PM (#5236654)
Wait.. we have a senior source control manager and we are using TFS. Sometimes clicking through the gui based wizards to merge two branches is to difficult for C# devs these days. His expertise in right clicking is truly remarkable. I fear for the day we move to distributed source control.
Re:SourceTree for Windows beta by masklinn on Sunday February 17, 2013 @03:05PM (#5236500)
> But I live in the 2010s. I want a source control system that does its job and gets out of my way.

Darcs was fun, although the exponential conflict issue was a bitch (and still not resolved as far as I know)

Re:SourceTree for Windows beta by gte910h on Sunday February 17, 2013 @12:05PM (#5235793)
The thing to remember about git is that it's a system for making a source control system, not a system itself.

No one uses ALL of git, but everyone needs a different subset of the creature.

Re:SourceTree for Windows beta by bjustin on Sunday February 17, 2013 @06:46PM (#5237305)
I recognize that Git is complicated, but what part of the complexity is unnecessary? It seems to me that Git is complicated because version control is inherently complex.
Re:SourceTree for Windows beta by tptacek on Sunday February 17, 2013 @12:54PM (#5236010)
I'll second this as well; I haven't used SourceTree, for me it's magit mode in Emacs, but having a structured interface to git turned out to be much more useful than an interface to CVS would have been. In particular, it's resulted in much more fine-grained commits and branches for me.

Magit is excellent, by the way.

Re:SourceTree for Windows beta by kindahero on Sunday February 17, 2013 @03:03PM (#5236495)
Magit is gem of all.. I think it comes on top a mile to any other gui for git I used so far.
Re:SourceTree for Windows beta by CyberShadow on Sunday February 17, 2013 @11:15AM (#5235595)
The standard git-gui and gitk tools, bundled with git, are much better than nothing, but at the same time not much to look at compared to some other GUIs. It's a shame that these tools have seen almost no considerable improvement in the last few years, as a good cross-platform GUI bundled with git would certainly be great. Perhaps that is due to the fact that they're written in Tcl/Tk, so the codebase is not easily approachable.

I've tried a few third-party GUIs such as SmartGit (now SmartGitHg), git-cola and Git Extensions, but they all lacked in one area or another and drove me back to the standard ones. Looking forward to trying SourceTree.

Re:SourceTree for Windows beta by skyebook on Sunday February 17, 2013 @01:51PM (#5236206)
Looks like there are a few people in the same boat as myself.

Was a cli purist but caved on a complicated merge. Actually seeing the commit graph was incredibly helpful. Later on I discovered that Command-Clicking two commits anywhere in the tree showed their full diff. I haven't gone back to the terminal except for the straightforward commit/fetch/branch creation commands.

Glad to see that Windows users will be getting some level of access to this gem :)

Re:SourceTree for Windows beta by pjmlp on Sunday February 17, 2013 @10:48AM (#5235509)
> That's good news for Windows users, their development tools really seem to be getting simpler and better lately.

I never had any major issues with my tools.

Re:SourceTree for Windows beta by ryanaghdam on Sunday February 17, 2013 @11:04AM (#5235558)
I bet the biggest issues you lowly Windows folk have are with others being smug.
Re:SourceTree for Windows beta by pjmlp on Sunday February 17, 2013 @01:15PM (#5236082)
The biggest problem I have with OSS fanboys is how they jump to conclusions.

I develop software on Windows, Aix, HP-UX, Solaris, GNU/Linux, BSD, Android, Windows Phone.

Re:SourceTree for Windows beta by chr1 on Sunday February 17, 2013 @01:40PM (#5236163)
>That's good news for Windows users, their development tools really seem to be getting simpler and better lately.

Tortoise git is pretty good too. I personally would love to be able to use it on linux and mac.