Re:Cafe owner thrives with no-pricing policy
by sidsavara on Wednesday March 18, 2009 @05:45PM
(#522415)
I read one study that showed having eyeballs (e.g., a picture of someone looking at you) next to the cash box increased deposits by some N% (I don't want to spout facts as I can't recall the number, but it was n > 10 - double digit percentage increase). They controlled for there just being a picture by alternating pictures of eyeballs with pictures of flowers.
I suspect part of it may be due to people showing up just for the novelty of it, but going back to the eyeball study (which I am too lazy to look up the reference for) I wonder if there is another thing at play too. Perhaps people think oh cool, let's show up and game the system, and they make plans to go there intending to perhaps pay 20% less than market.
Then they have to look the owner in the eye and tell him what they think is fair, and for whatever reason their mind changes. So rather than paying .8x, like they originally intended, they end up paying instead x - 1.2x
So you get increased business because people who were willing to pay .8x (lets say x = $10 based on the article, so $8) show up, and end up spending x - 1.2x ($10-12, per the article). Some portion of new customers may see that their game won't work (because they don't want to lie to the owner) and they just leave. No harm done - these people weren't eating at the cafe to begin with.
So I chalk at least part of this up to a neat psychological trick - but I wonder if many of those people will be repeat customers (some portion obviously will).
Anybody have references to back this up? This is just what I suspect may be happening, as it's what I susepct happened with folks who may have intended to steal bagels/candy from the office kitchen, saw the eyeballs and ended up paying for them instead.
Re:Cafe owner thrives with no-pricing policy
by orblivion on Wednesday March 18, 2009 @06:20PM
(#522446)
I understand how guilt can keep a lot of people from gaming the system too hard, but what about really desperate people (homeless people, for instance)? You'd think they'd eat there constantly, once they heard of it, and drive the place under.
Re:Cafe owner thrives with no-pricing policy
by jodrellblank on Wednesday March 18, 2009 @08:54PM
(#522640)
So there is a price, but it's secret?
Sounds like the same scam as tipping to me. Get me there and I will pay/tip over the odds out of fear, guilt, social pressure. But I will try to avoid going as putting that hassle and discomfort on me doesn't make for a pleasant customer experience.
Re:Cafe owner thrives with no-pricing policy
by jodrellblank on Wednesday March 18, 2009 @10:22PM
(#522742)
No, you're wrong there. I feel guilt at all sorts of unreasonable things, but that's not the point - if paying "too little" is "cheating the system" then there is not only a minimum price, but also a socially set unwritten price where the people around will label me a cheat - and hiding the price from me then making me pick an acceptable price when i'm particularly weak at judging social situations is annoying.
Re:Cafe owner thrives with no-pricing policy
by inerte on Thursday March 19, 2009 @01:07AM
(#522888)
Still doesn't need to have a price.
If a homeless man comes in an order a coffe, and pays one cent, the owner will remember his face. Next time, the owner might refuse the service.
Or if he orders a coffe, then another, and the most expensive sandwich, I think the owner will ask if he has some money to pay.
If the novelty wears off, he can start charging people again, and maybe retain some costumers who just went there to check if the no-price thing was true.
Re:Cafe owner thrives with no-pricing policy
by lsb on Wednesday March 18, 2009 @09:57PM
(#522711)
Once you've been to the UK, and experienced the blazé waiters and bartenders, you realize why being paid by tips is so important for good customer service. It's probably terrifying to be paid $3/hr + tips, which is common, but that's a big incentive to being nice.
Re:Cafe owner thrives with no-pricing policy
by critic on Thursday March 19, 2009 @12:51AM
(#522872)
Are you sure it's tipping? How come the sales staff in some supermarkets in the US are nice, even when they don't work on commission and tips?
Perhaps it's a combination of many factors: tips, commission, weather, culture, religion and guns that makes Americans nice (For the record, I'm not religious)
Re:Cafe owner thrives with no-pricing policy
by jodrellblank on Wednesday March 18, 2009 @10:30PM
(#522753)
I live in the UK.
The thing about tipping is that he cost of tipping is a small addition to the bill of an unknown socially set common percentage depending on place and culture which I don't enjoy guessing.
But the cost of not tipping or tipping too little is incalculable and potentially completely disproportionate to the situation, and potentially long term.
Hence, however much you explain the ideal of tipping being a kind of feedback, ensuring prompt service, etc. I will never not tip well, so it will never work like you idealise.
There is no way to differentiate a poor tip due to bing a cheapskate, one due to misreading the socially accepted norms, an unjustified poor service complaint or a valid poor service complaint. The whole tipping system works against the customer. Just tell me you're adding a set % to the bill and if the service is no good I'll vote with my feet and not come back...
Remember the scene in Monty Python's life of brian?
"how much for this?" "20" "ok" "no you have to haggle - offer me ten" "how about 10?" "ten for this? Are you mad it cost me twelve!" etc.
Re:Cafe owner thrives with no-pricing policy
by jerf on Thursday March 19, 2009 @12:21AM
(#522849)
Do tipping customs vary widely within the UK?
In the US, as far as I know they are quite stable across the country so it doesn't stress me out. If I traveled to another country, I would consider learning the tipping customs to be just another thing I need to learn, along with the electric system voltage and whether or not to shake hands. But if it varies widely within the same country, I could see how it would annoy you.
Re:Cafe owner thrives with no-pricing policy
by jodrellblank on Thursday March 19, 2009 @07:25PM
(#524186)
Do tipping customs vary widely within the UK?
_blink_. I don't know.
I've been going to the same barber for a decade, but I don't know if tipping is customary for haircuts in the UK, either in cities or in small towns, or in that establishment. Maybe next time I ought to ask.
Re:Cafe owner thrives with no-pricing policy
by chaosmachine on Thursday March 19, 2009 @12:09AM
(#522838)
As long as the server is working under the belief that quality service = bigger tip, the system works in favor of the customer. Whether that belief is rational or irrational is of no consequence.
Re:Cafe owner thrives with no-pricing policy
by Celcius on Wednesday March 18, 2009 @06:55PM
(#522494)
My first thought as other people have already noted was that I would be terribly guilt tripped and pay slightly above what I thought would be the average to make myself look good.
I do wonder however if people also pay more as a form of social-compensation and not guilt as they figure they are weighting up the cheap people.
This phenomenon would make an interesting study to read.
Re:Cafe owner thrives with no-pricing policy
by HSO on Wednesday March 18, 2009 @05:12PM
(#522360)
Interesting that people will pay what the owner says they do, when in physical proximity, and totally exploit the creator's friendliness when it comes to "donationware".
Re:Cafe owner thrives with no-pricing policy
by inerte on Thursday March 19, 2009 @01:14AM
(#522894)
Maybe someone running somekind of website where donations are accepted could run this experiment: Put on your sign-up/logout or download page a donate feature, and pictures of you next to your children/pets/dependent whatever, or a picture of your old car/tv and some text saying "I'm looking for money to replace this", etc.
I think physical proximity is a factor, but the emotions involved are more like "I can't screw the guy" and "I should help the guy" or "I should be a good person and do this", so if you can make these feelings emerge...
I suspect part of it may be due to people showing up just for the novelty of it, but going back to the eyeball study (which I am too lazy to look up the reference for) I wonder if there is another thing at play too. Perhaps people think oh cool, let's show up and game the system, and they make plans to go there intending to perhaps pay 20% less than market.
Then they have to look the owner in the eye and tell him what they think is fair, and for whatever reason their mind changes. So rather than paying .8x, like they originally intended, they end up paying instead x - 1.2x
So you get increased business because people who were willing to pay .8x (lets say x = $10 based on the article, so $8) show up, and end up spending x - 1.2x ($10-12, per the article). Some portion of new customers may see that their game won't work (because they don't want to lie to the owner) and they just leave. No harm done - these people weren't eating at the cafe to begin with.
So I chalk at least part of this up to a neat psychological trick - but I wonder if many of those people will be repeat customers (some portion obviously will).
Anybody have references to back this up? This is just what I suspect may be happening, as it's what I susepct happened with folks who may have intended to steal bagels/candy from the office kitchen, saw the eyeballs and ended up paying for them instead.
Sounds like the same scam as tipping to me. Get me there and I will pay/tip over the odds out of fear, guilt, social pressure. But I will try to avoid going as putting that hassle and discomfort on me doesn't make for a pleasant customer experience.
If a homeless man comes in an order a coffe, and pays one cent, the owner will remember his face. Next time, the owner might refuse the service.
Or if he orders a coffe, then another, and the most expensive sandwich, I think the owner will ask if he has some money to pay.
If the novelty wears off, he can start charging people again, and maybe retain some costumers who just went there to check if the no-price thing was true.
Perhaps it's a combination of many factors: tips, commission, weather, culture, religion and guns that makes Americans nice (For the record, I'm not religious)
The thing about tipping is that he cost of tipping is a small addition to the bill of an unknown socially set common percentage depending on place and culture which I don't enjoy guessing.
But the cost of not tipping or tipping too little is incalculable and potentially completely disproportionate to the situation, and potentially long term.
Hence, however much you explain the ideal of tipping being a kind of feedback, ensuring prompt service, etc. I will never not tip well, so it will never work like you idealise.
There is no way to differentiate a poor tip due to bing a cheapskate, one due to misreading the socially accepted norms, an unjustified poor service complaint or a valid poor service complaint. The whole tipping system works against the customer. Just tell me you're adding a set % to the bill and if the service is no good I'll vote with my feet and not come back...
Remember the scene in Monty Python's life of brian? "how much for this?" "20" "ok" "no you have to haggle - offer me ten" "how about 10?" "ten for this? Are you mad it cost me twelve!" etc.
In the US, as far as I know they are quite stable across the country so it doesn't stress me out. If I traveled to another country, I would consider learning the tipping customs to be just another thing I need to learn, along with the electric system voltage and whether or not to shake hands. But if it varies widely within the same country, I could see how it would annoy you.
_blink_. I don't know.
I've been going to the same barber for a decade, but I don't know if tipping is customary for haircuts in the UK, either in cities or in small towns, or in that establishment. Maybe next time I ought to ask.
I do wonder however if people also pay more as a form of social-compensation and not guilt as they figure they are weighting up the cheap people.
This phenomenon would make an interesting study to read.
I think physical proximity is a factor, but the emotions involved are more like "I can't screw the guy" and "I should help the guy" or "I should be a good person and do this", so if you can make these feelings emerge...