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Re:Why Real Businesses Don't Charge $5/month by ebiester on Tuesday February 12, 2013 @03:25PM (#5209265)
It all depends on your service. I am willing to pay $20 a year for cross-device password management for personal use, not $20 a month. I am willing to pay $$$ for a CRM. For businesses, your product must save me more money than if I do it myself. If it's a mere convenience that can be duplicated by an excel spreadsheet, I'm only willing to spend so much.

I suggest looking at what your value proposition is: if you think you can provide $50,000 dollars of value to your customer, you shouldn't be charging $5 a month. If your plan provides only a small amount of value, you better hope it provides that value to a large number of people. :) But you're not going to get away with charging more.

Re:Why Real Businesses Don't Charge $5/month by halcyondaze on Tuesday February 12, 2013 @03:16PM (#5209208)
While this is definitely a thought experiment, we found the basic premise to be true when we redesigned our product, pricing plans, and free trial strategy.

We went from:

Free Forever / $29 / $59 / $149

7 Day Trial / $49 / $149 / $249

And we have an overall better customer base (they find more value in our app) and relatively the same signup metrics as we had before.

Re:Why Real Businesses Don't Charge $5/month by mjn on Tuesday February 12, 2013 @03:11PM (#5209172)
Sure, if your market lets you charge more, go ahead and charge more. But in some markets, real businesses charge $5/mo, because market conditions don't let them charge $10/mo (or at least don't allow them to meet their other goals at that price). Evernote Premium is $5/mo, Google Drive charges $4.99/mo for 100GB of space, etc. Heck, Fastmail charges $1.65/mo for its "Full" plan (billed as $20/yr), or $3.33 for its "Enhanced".
Re:Why Real Businesses Don't Charge $5/month by Turing_Machine on Tuesday February 12, 2013 @03:38PM (#5209359)
Right. Why not charge a million per month? Or a billion? Or a trillion?
Re:Why Real Businesses Don't Charge $5/month by ahoyhere on Tuesday February 12, 2013 @03:20PM (#5209237)
Are any of those companies self-supporting on revenue from those products?

There's your answer.

It's not about what the market "lets" you do. It's about what you demonstrate to the market your product is worth to them. When in doubt, take responsibility and create agency. Otherwise your business is just a Disney princess waiting to be rescued.

Re:Why Real Businesses Don't Charge $5/month by Turing_Machine on Tuesday February 12, 2013 @03:34PM (#5209327)
"Are any of those companies self-supporting on revenue from those products?"

http://hostingmatters.com/web_hosting.html

They've been in business for 13 years.

Re:Why Real Businesses Don't Charge $5/month by ahoyhere on Tuesday February 12, 2013 @05:00PM (#5209872)
That doesn't answer my question. Hosting Matters wasn't in the list.

They also have many higher-priced offerings, and their low-priced offerings include 70 megabytes of data and not, a la Google Drive, 100GB.

Re:Why Real Businesses Don't Charge $5/month by Turing_Machine on Tuesday February 12, 2013 @11:52PM (#5211464)
All right: which restaurant generates more revenue: McDonald's or The French Laundry?

I'm not sure what being "in the list" has to do with it.

The notion that raising prices automatically increases profits is just absurd. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. It's not possible to generalize about it.

Re:Why Real Businesses Don't Charge $5/month by ahoyhere on Wednesday February 13, 2013 @12:17AM (#5211564)
Congratulations. You built a strawmen and are now knocking it down. I never said what you are arguing against - that "raising prices automatically increases profits."

Feel free to address how venture capital distorts prices at any time.

Re:Why Real Businesses Don't Charge $5/month by Turing_Machine on Wednesday February 13, 2013 @11:54AM (#5214124)
That "strawman" was exactly what the original post was claiming. It may not have been what you said, but it's certainly what the original article was claiming.

Modding me down won't change the facts, either.

Re:Why Real Businesses Don't Charge $5/month by Turing_Machine on Wednesday February 13, 2013 @12:59AM (#5211673)
Pointing out that you can't just charge anything you want for a product isn't a "straw man". It's just a fact.

Sorry.

Re:Why Real Businesses Don't Charge $5/month by ceejayoz on Tuesday February 12, 2013 @03:13PM (#5209189)
Unless I'm missing a paragraph, this pretends charging 3x as much won't ever reduce the number of people who sign up?
Re:Why Real Businesses Don't Charge $5/month by n3rdy on Tuesday February 12, 2013 @03:44PM (#5209400)
I'm guessing he was just trying to explain the overall concept, that or he moonlights at New York or California's tax departments.
Re:Why Real Businesses Don't Charge $5/month by justinmares on Tuesday February 12, 2013 @03:18PM (#5209220)
But does it reduce it by 3x?
Re:Why Real Businesses Don't Charge $5/month by Turing_Machine on Tuesday February 12, 2013 @03:40PM (#5209375)
It might not reduce it at all. It might reduce it by 100%. It's impossible to make generalizations about this.
Re:Why Real Businesses Don't Charge $5/month by rhizome on Tuesday February 12, 2013 @03:18PM (#5209217)
The logic is that the cost of acquisition must be constant.
Re:Why Real Businesses Don't Charge $5/month by Turing_Machine on Tuesday February 12, 2013 @03:41PM (#5209378)
Unfortunately, that logic is a fantasy.
Re:Why Real Businesses Don't Charge $5/month by rhizome on Tuesday February 12, 2013 @03:47PM (#5209415)
Well, yeah. :) Suppose I could have replaced "logic" with "assumption."
Re:Why Real Businesses Don't Charge $5/month by venomsnake on Tuesday February 12, 2013 @03:03PM (#5209117)
Poor backblaze ... they are doomed. Call them and tell them they are not real business.
Re:Why Real Businesses Don't Charge $5/month by atYevP on Tuesday February 12, 2013 @03:06PM (#5209145)
I'm going to have to tell our CTO to close up shop. Here we were, thinking we were profitable...alas and alack!:)
Re:Why Real Businesses Don't Charge $5/month by brianwski on Tuesday February 12, 2013 @09:22PM (#5210948)
Backblaze CTO here - this is the beauty of competition, you can't just sit back and CLAIM you can't make it any cheaper when some scrappy company comes to your market and PROVES they can sell it cheaper and make a healthy profit doing it. Yes it's hard on companies that just want to be lazy and not innovate, but it's OH SO GOOD for consumers. More for less, every day, all day long. I say bring it on.
Re:Why Real Businesses Don't Charge $5/month by jimzvz on Tuesday February 12, 2013 @03:05PM (#5209131)
Surely the whole point of lowering prices is to reduce cost of acquisition as well as churn. Where is this in your example?
Re:Why Real Businesses Don't Charge $5/month by patio11 on Tuesday February 12, 2013 @03:08PM (#5209158)
The first supposed benefit of lower prices is a wish, the second is a fantasy. Most SaaS companies with the typical four plan structure will find their highest churn on the cheapest plan. (Get them drunk if you don't believe me.)

It would be an enormously powerful result for SaaS companies if moving from e.g. $20 a month to $5 a month reduced customer acquisition costs by a factor of 10x, but companies that are able to nail customer acquisition at the LTVs implied by $5 a month are very rare. (They tend to be market-leading B2C companies, and they tend to have customer acquisition strategies which make pay-for-one-extra-customer-at-the-margin to not really be a factor.) By comparison, it is much, much easier to do all sorts of fun things when you can spend $100, $500, or $1k to acquire a customer. (Those are all a) numbers which many SaaS companies could trivially justify paying and b) numbers which many SaaS companies actually pay to get marginal customers.)

Re:Why Real Businesses Don't Charge $5/month by jimzvz on Tuesday February 12, 2013 @03:33PM (#5209318)
I find this very interesting. What is the best way to find the sweet spot? Am I right in thinking that the more you charge for a service, the higher the cost of support for that customer will be and this can be difficult when scaling. i.e. A million customers at $5/month with 1 support employee/50,000 customers results in a much simpler business than 50,000 customers at $100/month with 1 support employee/500 customers?

With regards to the high churn rate on cheap plans, is it that this is due to the quality of the plans and that it is likely that these customers can find a similar service for free or is it the perceived value to customer is lower because they are only paying a small amount each month?

Re:Why Real Businesses Don't Charge $5/month by patio11 on Tuesday February 12, 2013 @03:55PM (#5209462)
Am I right in thinking that the more you charge for a service, the higher the cost of support for that customer will be

This is one of those "That certainly feels like it could be true" intuitions which data will disabuse you of in a hurry if you run a SaaS business. Within roughly the same tier of customer -- say, all the publicly available plans on any SaaS whose pricing page you have in your swipe file -- I can virtually guarantee you that customer support costs go down as price goes up. (There's a discontinuity between $500 a month and Enterprise, where support costs may or may not actually go up. Prices go up in a hurry at that discontinuity, though.)

Also: do not price SaaS based on costs. The margins are typically very, very high. Customer support is generally a very low portion of both the costs of the company and the marginal costs for bringing on another customer -- at most SaaS companies I'm familiar with, the #1 cost is engineering salaries and the #1 marginal cost (by a long shot) is costs associated with customer acquisition. (Either advertising spend or marketing/sales salaries.)

With regards to the high churn rate on cheap plans, is it that this is due to the quality of the plans and that it is likely that these customers can find a similar service for free or is it the perceived value to customer is lower because they are only paying a small amount each month?

You're trying to fit a rationalization onto observed behavior, which is dangerous, because customers are frequently irrational. Anecdotally -- and again, social lubricant is a great way to get fun stories from your SaaS peers because darn if we're going to repeat many of these stories while sober [1] -- there's a particular segment of customers who you don't want to be in a relationship with at all, and these customers are disproportionately drawn to your/the market's cheapest offerings. That's not necessarily an indictment of the offering.

[1] I am reusing this joke for comedic effect, as I don't drink, but these are very common topics of discussion at dinners among SaaS entrepreneurs. My favorite anecdote ever:

X: "I get 'My business doesn't make any money, so I can't afford to pay you $20' all the time. What do you say to that?"

Y: "'#$#& you, mine does.'"

Re:Why Real Businesses Don't Charge $5/month by chc on Tuesday February 12, 2013 @05:15PM (#5209960)
To add to Patrick's experience: You will find these people at the cheap end of just about everything, not only SaaS. For example, our ad department finds that the people who purchase smaller ads are vastly more likely to cause trouble (e.g. "The ad is nice, but could you make it pop?" "OK, it pops more, but I would like a photo of my pet parakeet in the corner." "Can you move the parakeet up half an inch?" "Find clip art of another parakeet so he has a friend." "I want a discount on my $35 ad because I don't think the parakeet clip art you found is cute enough." vs. "OK, corporate approved it, let's run with it").
Re:Why Real Businesses Don't Charge $5/month by jimzvz on Tuesday February 12, 2013 @04:41PM (#5209760)
Thanks for the info.
Re:Why Real Businesses Don't Charge $5/month by joedev on Wednesday February 13, 2013 @11:03AM (#5213732)
In this post from Ryan Carson from six years ago http://37signals.com/svn/archives2/building_a_web_app_dont_f... he says adding a plan that cost "$80 more ($19 vs. $99)" increased revenue by 30% within two weeks. There are many posts like this out there.

Generous SaaS operators have been sharing this experience and wisdom for years and still people (usually without experience) refuse to believe it. Why?

Thanks patio11 and Amy Hoy for sharing your experiences.

Re:Why Real Businesses Don't Charge $5/month by ahoyhere on Tuesday February 12, 2013 @03:18PM (#5209222)
What patio11 says is true. Our churn rate is under 1% on our highest accounts, and occasionally double digit on the cheapest. I've gotten lots of other SaaS owners drunk and we all share the same experience.

When it comes to low prices, people will make up any random reason they can "logic up" in absence of facts. Sure, "low prices to reduce churn" sounds totally logical, but it's utter bullhockey. Don't believe it. Always ask for the data.

Re:Why Real Businesses Don't Charge $5/month by jimzvz on Tuesday February 12, 2013 @04:53PM (#5209831)
Is this due to the pricing or that it is the cheapest offering?
Re:Why Real Businesses Don't Charge $5/month by ahoyhere on Tuesday February 12, 2013 @05:09PM (#5209934)
False dichotomy. There are a million other potential explanations. As for what it is in each specific case, quite possibly different.

For us, it's a combination of factors:

1. Our lower plan is for freelancers. Freelancers are basically by nature unprofessional, and suck at business. (Saying this as a former freelancer who fit that bill for a long time.) Freelancers go out of business all the time, and they also don't engage in professional practices with any great will. Larger plans -> larger teams -> more professional and more durable as a business. They also tend to evaluate software more carefully and then stick with what they pick because A) they don't get paid to try out infinite software packages, B) they do actually want to get paid and not procrastinate or diddle around pretending to look for the perfect tool, C) getting a whole team off one tool and onto another takes valuable time & energy away from actual work.

2. Cheap customers are always the worst. Always. This cuts across all industries. People who shop on price are not the people you want to deal with… they are the most demanding and again far more likely to quit! You'd think lower prices would mean lower expectations but it seems the opposite is true. These people can scent a low price a mile away through the muddy waters of the internet, and once you attract them, the only way to shake them is to raise your prices.

We have friends who run software that's more urgently needed than time tracking — something that couldn't, theoretically, be replaced by a nasty Excel spreadsheet -- and they see exactly the same behavior even though in theory even their smallest, cheapest customers ought to be professional and on the high end of the tech savvy scale. You simply cannot believe how much happier they are since they dropped their lower plans entirely.

We too have seen a decline in crazy support emails since we raised our prices across the board.

Re:Why Real Businesses Don't Charge $5/month by jimzvz on Tuesday February 12, 2013 @05:32PM (#5210047)
Thanks.
Re:Why Real Businesses Don't Charge $5/month by brownbat on Tuesday February 12, 2013 @07:54PM (#5210644)
Beware, you Ingvar Kamprads, Karl Albrechts, and Sam Waltons: only poverty awaits.
Re:Why Real Businesses Don't Charge $5/month by Turing_Machine on Wednesday February 13, 2013 @12:03AM (#5211503)
Likewise Ray Kroc and Jeff Bezos.

F.W. Woolworth is gone from the U.S. now, but they lasted for over a hundred years.

Re:Why Real Businesses Don't Charge $5/month by kevinthew on Tuesday February 12, 2013 @03:54PM (#5209456)
this might be the dumbest blog post I've seen posted on HN. why is anyone reading crappy marketing blogs that have no basic understanding of accounting or microeconomics?
Re:Why Real Businesses Don't Charge $5/month by keesj on Tuesday February 12, 2013 @03:31PM (#5209304)
Is this article about WHAT TYPE OF BUSINESS to run, or HOW TO PRICE IT? I think it's mixing some logic of the two.
Re:Why Real Businesses Don't Charge $5/month by o0-0o on Tuesday February 12, 2013 @03:06PM (#5209140)
google charges $5/yr for their basic data plan.
Re:Why Real Businesses Don't Charge $5/month by justinmares on Tuesday February 12, 2013 @03:09PM (#5209160)
Google also makes $100m a day from Adwords. I don't think they're optimizing revenue on basic data..