I would say, as others have pointed out, that this is in
retaliation to the pieces about graft and wealth building
by CN officials counter to the spirit of the revolution
because it could cause internal PLA dissent/strife -and to
see if they could obtain info about sourc(e)s of that info.
Absolutely. But the greater context is that they see this as a skirmish in the larger campaign to discredit the PRC's current leaders, foment discontent, overthrow the government, and set up a (US-controlled) democracy."It's like a comment section on the Stuxnet worm being inundated with comments about Iran sponsoring suicide bombers in Israel."
This may not be a news flash for Israelis or Americans, but I bet it would make for informed reading for an Iranian (or even for an American sitting next to an Iranian). I've found foreign articles on current events illuminating of my own cultural blinders.
> This may not be a news flash for Israelis or Americans, but I bet it would make for informed reading for an Iranian (or even for an American sitting next to an Iranian). I've found foreign articles on current events illuminating of my own cultural blinders.
Sure, but Stuxnet was built for very specific purposes, and sponsorship of suicide bombers is so far down the list of motives that it becomes essentially a non sequitur. However, it does achieve very well a change in conversation from the implications of introducing a computer worm to sabotage a nuclear program to a discussion of how evil a regime is. The former is a conversation worth having, no matter how much you feel Stuxnet was justified.
Here, we have a comment about the "context" of this action, which is summed up for us pretty well above as "they see this as a skirmish in the larger campaign to discredit the PRC's current leaders, foment discontent, overthrow the government, and set up a (US-controlled) democracy" (which, incidentally, sounds exactly like the greater context for the great firewall and state-controlled media, as well). This completely ignores the very specific correlation the Times points out with a series of articles they ran on Premier Wen Jiabao. That accusation is much more specific then the "context" found above.
Until you realize that undercutting popular support for a leader is step 1 in the PNAC handbook for democratic change. We accuse them of atrocities, we accuse them of holding WMDs, we accuse them of suppressing freedom of speech, we get their population to believe that they are illegitimate by funding "democracy" movements. Then the fighting starts and we drop off weapons with the rebels, even if we know full well this could result in something worse ("Obama administration clearly was worried about the consequences of its hidden hand in helping arm Libyan militants").
Now half a dozen countries are burning across the Middle East in the name of setting up US-controlled democracies.
Yet most Americans don't get why the Chinese would defend their leaders reflexively or why the Chinese military would hit out. The view goes something like this: Sure, Wen Jiaobao may have skimmed some money off the top, but politicians are constantly caught in scandals and China has gotten richer while the US has gotten poorer. So China's corruption isn't fatal to growth, while America's bank/Fed chimera may well be. And yet America wants to set China on fire just like it has so many other countries in the world, first with words and then with guns.
So, yes, I do believe this context is relevant. You don't need to agree with their views, but you do need to understand why they see this as self-defense against US imperialism.
Assuming that of them certainly sells the people of China short, not to mention the complete lack of agency you seem to believe the people that actually live in Egypt, Tunisia, Libya, Syria, etc had in deciding to revolt in the first place. It's not clear what your personal belief is here (you're only reporting on the "context", after all), but you've repeated the libya arms thing enough that I'll assuage your fears: look back through history. Nation building by rebel proxy does not work as intended. You only have to look at your so called new "US-controlled democracies" to dispel any idea of US control.
Meanwhile, the new york times reported on corruption in those around Wen Jiabao, and the Chinese government hacked into their systems apparently so they could find out who provided information to the reporters and how they got the information that they did. It's a silly strawman to suppose that "without this context Americans just don't understand why the Chinese military would get involved on a negative story about a leader." No, it's extremely clear, and I think few here were very surprised.
the complete lack of agency you seem to believe the people
that actually live in Egypt, Tunisia, Libya, Syria, etc had
in deciding to revolt in the first place.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/oct/21/barack-obama-ara... Egypt's revolution provided the first hurdle. Obama was
criticised for backing stability as the drama of Tahrir
Square unfolded. But on 1 February came his call for
Mubarak to step down "now". As the New York Times wrote:
"Obama upended three decades of American relations with its
most stalwart ally in the Arab world, putting the weight of
the United States squarely on the side of the Arab street."
As for this: look back through history. Nation building by rebel proxy
does not work
Nation building doesn't work. Revolution by rebel proxy sure does. Governments don't overthrow themselves. As for history, the American Revolution succeeded because the French were pumping in money. The Vietnamese beat off the Americans because they had the Chinese and Soviets in their corner. The Afghans repelled the USSR with the help of the US and the Stinger missile. You will be hard pressed to find a revolution that won or even began without the intervention of foreign powers; where are the armaments coming from in the first place? The record shows that the Arab Spring was caused by US training, funding, armaments, and media support.http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/15/world/15aid.html?pagewante...
“We learned how to organize and build coalitions,” said
Bashem Fathy, a founder of the youth movement that
ultimately drove the Egyptian uprisings. Mr. Fathy, who
attended training with Freedom House, said, “This certainly
helped during the revolution.”
At one time the United States financed political reform
groups by channeling money through the Egyptian government.
But in 2005, under a Bush administration initiative, local
groups were given direct grants, much to the chagrin of
Egyptian officials.
The Egyptian government even appealed to groups like
Freedom House to stop working with local political
activists and human rights groups.
“They were constantly saying: ‘Why are you working with
those groups, they are nothing. All they have are slogans,’
” said Sherif Mansour, an Egyptian activist and a senior
program officer for the Middle East and North Africa at
Freedom House.
When their appeals to the United States government failed,
the Egyptian authorities reacted by restricting the
activities of the American nonprofit organizations.
In the face of government opposition, some groups moved
their training sessions to friendlier countries like Jordan
or Morocco. They also sent activists to the United States
for training.
Further documentation on this topic is not hard to find. But feel free to minimize the explicit, acknowledged support of the most powerful country in the world for violent democratic revolution in favor of local "agency". As for whether this article on the #2 leader in China was printed at random, The New York Times has a track record of coordinating with the US government:http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/22/world/asia/22pakistan.html...
The New York Times had agreed to temporarily withhold
information about Mr. Davis's ties to the agency at the
request of the Obama administration, which argued that
disclosure of his specific job would put his life at risk.
Several foreign news organizations have disclosed some
aspects of Mr. Davis's work with the C.I.A. On Monday,
American officials lifted their request to withhold
publication, though George Little, a C.I.A. spokesman,
declined any further comment.
http://www.salon.com/2011/02/21/nyt_16/ It's one thing for a newspaper to withhold information
because they believe its disclosure would endanger lives.
But here, the U.S. Government has spent weeks making public
statements that were misleading in the extreme -- Obama's
calling Davis "our diplomat in Pakistan" -- while the NYT
deliberately concealed facts undermining those government
claims because government officials told them to do so.
That's called being an active enabler of government
propaganda. ...
Following the dictates of the U.S. Government for what they
can and cannot publish is, of course, anything but new for
the New York Times. In his lengthy recent article on
WikiLeaks and Julian Assange, NYT Executive Editor Bill
Keller tried to show how independent his newspaper is by
boasting that they published their story of the Bush NSA
program even though he has "vivid memories of sitting in
the Oval Office as President George W. Bush tried to
persuade [him] and the paper's publisher to withhold the
eavesdropping story"; Keller neglected to mention that the
paper learned about the illegal program in mid-2004, but
followed Bush's orders to conceal it from the public for
over a year -- until after Bush was safely re-elected.
In other words, whether under Bush or Obama, the NYT has an acknowledged track record of coordinating with the US government on stories that could result in international incidents. A hit piece on one of the top people in the Chinese government might not have been done at the State Department's request, but it certainly would not have been published over the State Department's objection. The fact that its effect was to sow discontent with China's leadership is not unnoticed by anyone skeptical of US-exported democratic revolution.As far as I can tell, the US has been a follower, not a leader, in these movements. Sure, activists have been trained in the US. That's been the case for decades though, and it took organization and significant change and economic pressure — not brought about by the US — in the region to create an the conditions for change.
I think there are coincidences and occasionally there could be coercion (don't publish on account of national security) but I do not see it as "an organ of the gov't". It's self interest. In other words it's not comparable to XinHua News, as you're implying.
W/re ME revolutions. All those examples were in places where the outcome was nearly inevitable (needed some logistical/moral support) and the US/EU didn't want to appear to be on the 'wrong side' of history. Witness CN and RU. Specially RU tends to pour arms into those conflicts to upset the West, to some extent --I don't fully understand their intent but they are unsuccessful in much but delaying the inevitable.
The gov't mostly want to control internal communication. I think in this case they were looking for info on where the NYT got this information, so they could track down and rectify the sourc(e)s.
They are neither incompetent nor ignorant. They can tell who's who. When they want Industrial info, they know where and how to get it. When they want advanced tech, they know how to get it. When they want to retaliate "cybernetically" they know how to do it.
I would say, as others have pointed out, that this is in retaliation to the pieces about graft and wealth building by CN officials counter to the spirit of the revolution because it could cause internal PLA dissent/strife -and to see if they could obtain info about sourc(e)s of that info.
>"and in general even the NYT does tend to side with the USG against China or Arab regimes"
This is like comparing people's comments about the weather and saying "see, they are aligned, they agree on aspects about the weather". I think it's more that their views coincide rather than the implied "pseudo-state-organ-piece" view. They (CN) are not naive.
I'd predict that if you began hosting Fa Lun Gong sympathetic views and began getting traction that you (your site) would become a target -not because you'd be assoc with the gov't, or even think you were related to the gov't, but because FLG is something they consider counter to their interest. You could be based in North Korea, but if you published things they found counter-productive, they'd look into investigationg your nature, I suspect.