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Re:Chinese Hackers Infiltrate New York Times Computers by azakai on Wednesday January 30, 2013 @11:38PM (#5143466)
> Whether or not you believe the Arab Spring actually resulted in good outcomes, the salient fact is that US funded groups started the revolutions

Wait, what? Do you have any evidence to support that?

Re:Chinese Hackers Infiltrate New York Times Computers by temphn on Thursday January 31, 2013 @12:01AM (#5143544)
Yes, please read the article I linked:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/15/world/15aid.html?pagewante...

  Title: US Groups Helped Nurture Arab Uprisings
Here is another.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/06/world/africa/weapons-sent-...

  The Obama administration secretly gave its blessing to arms 
  shipments to Libyan rebels from Qatar last year, but 
  American officials later grew alarmed as evidence grew that 
  Qatar was turning some of the weapons over to Islamic 
  militants, according to United States officials and foreign 
  diplomats.

  But in the months before, the Obama administration clearly 
  was worried about the consequences of its hidden hand in 
  helping arm Libyan militants, concerns that have not 
  previously been reported. The weapons and money from Qatar    
  strengthened militant groups in Libya, allowing them to 
  become a destabilizing force since the fall of the Qaddafi 
  government.
Re:Chinese Hackers Infiltrate New York Times Computers by magicalist on Thursday January 31, 2013 @01:39AM (#5143844)
and do you have anything at all that makes this relevant to the hacking incident at the nytimes?
Re:Chinese Hackers Infiltrate New York Times Computers by PakG1 on Thursday January 31, 2013 @04:41AM (#5144224)
Read the top comment that started this whole conversation. It's foundational to the whole thread. There is no thread without that claim.
Re:Chinese Hackers Infiltrate New York Times Computers by magicalist on Thursday January 31, 2013 @05:15AM (#5144296)
If you read my comments above, you can see that I did indeed read the top comment.

All that is provided is the assertion that all (american?) organizations questioning the Chinese government are apparently seen as arms of the United States's campaign against China, which explains why the Chinese government would make this move. What I was asking for any specific evidence that would preclude the much more obvious explanation that the New York Times wrote a story exposing corruption surrounding the Chinese Premier, and the people infiltrating the system were looking for the sources of that information (which is what the New York Times themselves are claiming). Without specific information, all we're left with is that "the Chinese government does not like dissent", and the Arab spring narrative is merely sophistry.

Re:Chinese Hackers Infiltrate New York Times Computers by mturmon on Thursday January 31, 2013 @02:06PM (#5146680)
@magicalist: I agree with you (i.e., that in this case the obvious explanation is operative, and furthermore that the Chinese government is capable of discriminating between the actions of the US government and those of the NYT) but there's no sense arguing the point.

To me, this back-and-forth is reminiscent of "lefter-than-thou" debates I have witnessed before, and they all end up right where they started.

One caveat: it's quite possible that there are US government sponsored probes of Chinese sites, that we are not aware of, and that may be quite extensive and outrageous (to the Chinese government). So this skirmish with the NYT may be part of that larger cold war. This is not the same as saying (as the original comment did) that the Chinese government sees the NYT as a proxy of the US government.

Re:Chinese Hackers Infiltrate New York Times Computers by j_s on Thursday January 31, 2013 @01:09PM (#5146315)
False dichotomy perhaps? Consider this specific instance as a subset:

  >  the New York Times wrote a story exposing corruption surrounding the 
  >  Chinese Premier, and the people infiltrating the system were looking 
  >  for the sources of that information
of:

  > all (american?) organizations questioning the Chinese government are
  > apparently seen as arms of the United States's campaign against China